Legal/illegal - I'm confused

[crimisus]

I have a Virgin Media Tivo box and a while ago I recorded Season 1 of 'Troy: The Fall of a City', all eight episodes, to the box. I still have them saved. Now, this is deemed legal. However, if I download this series from a torrent site, this would be deemed illegal, for which I would soon receive an 'educational' email. How is this so?

[LZA]

Maybe because you paid for the subscription with the cable company to get those shows and having them is still using it in the capacity allowed with your subscription?

If you just torrented, you'd be getting it for free, which they don't like.. They would find it worse if you uploaded your copy. So, If you found a way to copy what you have saved from the box and uploaded it to TPB (sure there is a way), they consider me and everyone else who D/L's it a loss as subscribers to their company, since you gave it to us... They want us to pay for our own box and get it ourselves. JIMHO.

But you're right, it doesn't make sense, I think since torrenting is taboo, it's easier to target torrenters... Meaning, they have to fight their battles where they think they can win... But it reminds me of the old days we would tape songs off the radio and share... A lot of things don't make sense...

Someone more knowledgeable (anyone else here), may add their opinion. These are just my preliminary thoughts... I used to DVR stuff too.

[crimisus]

Maybe because you paid for the subscription with the cable company to get those shows and having them is still using it in the capacity allowed with your subscription?

If you just torrented, you'd be getting it for free, which they don't like.. They would find it worse if you uploaded your copy. So, If you found a way to copy what you have saved from the box and uploaded it to TPB (sure there is a way), they consider me and everyone else who D/L's it a loss as subscribers to their company, since you gave it to us... They want us to pay for our own box and get it ourselves. JIMHO.

But you're right, it doesn't make sense, I think since torrenting is taboo, it's easier to target torrenters... Meaning, they have to fight their battles where they think they can win... But it reminds me of the old days we would tape songs off the radio and share... A lot of things don't make sense...

Someone more knowledgeable (anyone else here), may add their opinion. These are just my preliminary thoughts... I used to DVR stuff too.

Thanks for sharing thoughts. You are probably quite right re having paid a subscription for the service, I hadn't thought of that aspect. So, I have paid my subs and TV licence, I have watched said series but did not record and save. Later I decide I want the series after all and download it, after all the series has been aired on terrestrial TV for which I have paid said licence. Is that still deemed illegal........or should I have bought the now available boxset? Am I right in assuming that the illegal bit of all this is the 'uploading', not the 'downloading' of torrented material?

[LZA]

I would say from other conversations here, both uploading and downloading are illegal, but uploading is frowned upon worse. Metaphorically, I see it kinda as: Downloader=drug user, uploader = drug dealer.  Also, when you pay for the subscription, that helps them pay for the commercial advertisements, and when you buy the box set, you are paying for the product and applicable taxes (i'm talking here in the USA, not sure if/how taxes apply in other countries)

In the insurance we called it the theory of indemnity. Which is not identical, but similar. which is to make you whole. You pay money, so you are at a loss, what makes you whole is the box set and/or subscription (in this case) which indemnifies you and them since its something for something.

When you torrent, you are ahead of the game you got something for free, and they claim they are at a loss since they are not being compensated for their product.

This is just my perception of the very beginning of it. I'm sure there are more factors I'm missing...

[crimisus]

I would say from other conversations here, both uploading and downloading are illegal, but uploading is frowned upon worse. Metaphorically, I see it kinda as: Downloader=drug user, uploader = drug dealer.  Also, when you pay for the subscription, that helps them pay for the commercial advertisements, and when you buy the box set, you are paying for the product and applicable taxes (i'm talking here in the USA, not sure if/how taxes apply in other countries)

In the insurance we called it the theory of indemnity. Which is not identical, but similar. which is to make you whole. You pay money, so you are at a loss, what makes you whole is the box set and/or subscription (in this case) which indemnifies you and them since its something for something.

When you torrent, you are ahead of the game you got something for free, and they claim they are at a loss since they are not being compensated for their product.

This is just my perception of the very beginning of it. I'm sure there are more factors I'm missing...

I like your analogy, 'drug user', 'drug dealer', got it in one. Of course the 'old days' of recording off the radio/cassette player/vcr and sharing was completely anonymous unlike today and the internet with so many prying eyes. 

We here in the UK, if discovered to have downloaded copyright material, are now being targeted with emails purporting to 'educate' us. The contributing ISP's give twenty days grace before sending another if in that time one still 'offends'. Not sure what happens twenty/forty days hence if re-offending! Sounds almost like a 'three-strike system. We have been assured, certainly at the 'first-strike' that our details are not forwarded to the 'governing body/initiative', 'Get It Right'. Scaremongering, or what!!

[politux]

Simple, get smarter than your ISP. Hide your IP from the torrent swarm by using a VPN or a seedbox. Problem solved, no more letters. Doesn't really matter what is legal if they can't enforce the law.

[RobertX]

LZA is right about the drugs analogy, but I see it as uploader = Robin Hoods and downloaders = Robin Hoods and the common peasant.

You see, not only does the peasant take the file, he passes it to someone else.

The MAFIAA are the evil, fat Bishops and the Sheriff of Nottingham.

My two Canadian dollars.

[dueda]

Think how the legalese picture up/down-loaders.

The downloader obtains copies by non authorised means, thus skipping control and payment. He/she may pay fines for the material.
The uploader distributes copies to many downloaders, causing multiple losses and hurting businesses in scale. Bigger fines and more serious charges.

If ordered to pay $20 for each movie, a normal downloader would go for what, $20,000 in fines?
But for uploaders, some cases may be in order of many millions of dollars/euros. It's hard to determine how many copies were made, but they "guess".

But keep in mind the main drive is to stop people from thinking they can decide what is to be allowed, which law should be upheld, or change the system.

[contrail]

Legal if you make our own private copy, but illegal if you share it with people who have not bought it.

...copyright law is dumb so just share it smartly and use tpb

[dueda]

To return to the thread focus, the iTV box, or any other media, may be illegal even if done right and inside your own home.

In some jurisdictions, copyright notice (that blue screen) will say: "You can not sell, lease, ... display in public, gatherings, ..."
Depending on text and copyright owners interpretation, you can't mass your own family and friends to watch news, a football game or just telenovela.