Going to Heaven or Hell

[Aaron.Walkhouse]

Oh, the bible does have an unfortunate loophole where Hell does become doom.
Apparently Satan searches hell "as a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour".
I'm guessing that would be a bit of an unpleasant experience for near-immortals. ‌ ‌

Personally, I'm not a part of any church organization and find it interesting that the
original church in biblical days had beliefs so hugely different from later groups. ‌ ‌

[LZA]

[quote='RobertX' pid='156052' dateline='1473977267'
Perhaps I shouldn't have asked in the first place. :(
[/quote]

Never say that. The only bad question was the one that wasn't asked.

[RobertX]

Thanks, L.Z.A.

I enjoy your insights too.

Tell me something about yourself: what is your religious background? Were you christened? You made no secret about your beliefs, and from what I read in this board, you are an Agnostic.

[LZA]

OK,
from the beginning, I was raised as a Christian, Protestant. I wasn't pushed into religion, which was good. it allowed me to think on my own. my friends who were strict Catholics, didn't stick to their  religion as they felt it was force fed to them, and they didn't want to take it. so they rebuked on their religion (mostly Catholics). I guess the way they were taught was more of a negative, then the way we were taught. I was taught to use my own head when determining how other people prayed... use others actions to make an assessment on how the person was.other people would think that just because they came to church, they were doing their part, and can shit on others because the did their part.. . It's not just going through the motions, you actually have to believe in the changes you are trying to make . hold yourself to a higher standard and hope for people to follow.you cant just talk about being better, you actually have to be better. live by example. show how strong you are by asking for help, because the truly strong have no fear about showing their weaknesses and wanting to find a way to strengthen those weaknesses. that also how intelligence goes, to know you don't know everything but try to better yourself with what you have....

I've considered all organized religions , and I take a bit from all of them . like if you take 5 guys to observe 1 man . 1 one of them would say he's tall, the other would say he's black, another observer would say he wore a white coat... That's how I believe all religions were determined. the prophets described the same man using different descriptions, since the the man was tall, black and wore a white coat ... that's how organized religion came to pass... Christianity, Judaism , muslim, all of it. diffrent descriptions of the same man.. the same god.

That's how I can believe the same heaven that takes in all the goodie goodies from jesusus, catholics , can take the same muslims, jews , whatever, beause the descriptions may be different , but the heart is the same ... and if the good heart is ready for god, then god will take them in...regardles of color, creed, race, hetero/homosexual, big prick little prick, big titties little titties; what ever... if your heart is pure and you care for people, regardless if you you're in a circumstance where you are a have not and you feel like god short changed you youstill come out on top since god KNOWS the pain you've dealt with and knows the strength it took to persevere...trust me me, he and the universe (as he is in the physical)loves us all very much, and equally

that is IMHO.

[RobertX]

Yeah, you can split religion, but you can never split wisdom.

[LZA]

religion is a man made thing. Wisdom is a tool that god gave us we use to figure things out. use wisdom to make your own religion.

[Aaron.Walkhouse]

Each going his own way? ‌ ‌ That works for Jeet Kune Do but not for finding the only god that actually exists.
It helps to become free of Man's religions, no doubt, but at that point we need a real clue or we'll stay lost.

Protestantism is a good demonstration. ‌ Each new wave of people being led away from Rome brought them
a step closer to the original church and the original understanding of the spirit that was leading their way.
For each group that step, that clue, was good enough for the moment and they were the saints of their day.

Each time this happened the clue they needed was in the bible and they had help from the spirit to see it.
That's why the bible is important. ‌ It may look like a stack of books written by a whole bunch of men over
a few thousand years but all of those men were inspired by the one spirit; and that spirit was authoring it
as a historical document from the viewpoint of his having already lived through it all from beginning to end.

So, for each of us, we get inspiration from the bible if we have his help while we try to read the truth in it.
As long as we are free of the rule and traditions of men we are free of obstacles to finding god, but we still
need a nudge in the right direction because the underlying truth is counterintuitive to our human wisdom.

Matthew 16:1-20
(1) The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.
(2) He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
(3) And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
(4) A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.
(5) And when his disciples were come to the other side, they had forgotten to take bread.
(6) Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
(7) And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have taken no bread.
(8) Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?
(9) Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?
(10) Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?
(11) How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?
(12) Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
(13) When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
(14) And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
(15) He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
(16) And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
(17) And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
(18) And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
(19) And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
(20) Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

[joew771]

So, for each of us, we get inspiration from the bible if we have his help while we try to read the truth in it.
As long as we are free of the rule and traditions of men we are free of obstacles to finding god, but we still
need a nudge in the right direction because the underlying truth is counterintuitive to our human wisdom.

I always liked you, but you are a super freak, and should probably be thrown into a lake of fire.

[Aaron.Walkhouse]

Thank you. ‌ What I said up there stands on one of those counterintuitive facts. ‌
We are real, what we believe is real and we are still here, but for a limited time.
To say otherwise requires that there is no god, thus no point in religion at all.

People who "get it" are unfortunately rare. ‌ We do get thrown into furnaces
and boiling oil from time to time but it doesn't always have the expected effect.

Something similar did happen to me once. ‌ I was just out of church and some kids
who had already proven to be bigoted against Christians tried to bean me with a full
giant-sized wax paper cup of cola from a moving car. ‌ It hit my chest dead center,
exploded like a bomb and it went everywhere but on me and my bible. ‌ Not a drop. ‌
Little miracles like that happen often enough to keep life interesting and fun. ‌

[LZA]

Thank you. ‌ What I said up there stands on one of those counterintuitive facts. ‌
We are real, what we believe is real and we are still here, but for a limited time.
To say otherwise requires that there is no god, thus no point in religion at all.

People who "get it" are unfortunately rare. ‌ We do get thrown into furnaces
and boiling oil from time to time but it doesn't always have the expected effect.

Something similar did happen to me once. ‌ I was just out of church and some kids
who had already proven to be bigoted against Christians tried to bean me with a full
giant-sized wax paper cup of cola from a moving car. ‌ It hit my chest dead center,
exploded like a bomb and it went everywhere but on me and my bible. ‌ Not a drop. ‌
Little miracles like that happen often enough to keep life interesting and fun. ‌

Thank you for your input , good sir!! see this is what I like, a converging of opinions.. gives me food for thought.