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(Jan 31, 2018, 08:52 am)politux Wrote: " I would be more careful about what you believe and basing it on evidence not conjecture and disinformation"
THAT is quite well-said and practical........ "evidence", though...... ??? That "evidence" can come in some rather extremely subtle and fleeting forms. It kinda doubles back on "what you believe"...... it's only evidence if you see (it?) as a manifestation that transcends conjecture (and what a great word that is.......).
IMO, Atheists are thinkers. The religious are followers. One of my favorite concepts: Religion is for people who don't want to go to Hell. Spirituality is for those who've been to Hell and don't want to go back.
Sorry if I'm buttin' in here..... I'm trying to get "explore the TPB forums" item off my list of "things to procrastinate away....."
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You're not butting in, welcome to the discussion. 
And yes, atheists do tend to think critically and not just accept a load of bullshit because someone said it, it's written in a "magic" book, or their parents told them.
I remember being about 9 and thinking, wow my parents lied about Santa, maybe they are lying about Jesus too?
Now why hasn't everyone else over age 9 figured it out yet?
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Parents lie about a lot of things, and that alone means humans are liars by nature - We can't live without saying or listening to lies. So dogmas.
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(Dec 12, 2018, 07:10 am)dueda Wrote: We can't live without saying or listening to lies. So dogmas.
True, but we can also use critical thinking to tell fact from fiction and truth from lies.
When someone tells me that a person can rise from the dead or turn water into wine without any evidence I remain skeptical.
"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence" - Christopher Hitchens.
The burden of proof is squarely on the shoulders of the theist, as he is making the claim that his imaginary friend exists.
I ask where is the evidence, he doesn't have any, so I don't believe in his imaginary friend.
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Yet we can't live without lies both given or taken, we can just choose which to hold to. The day we rationalize everything and get rid of lying, we quit living.
Or just: Some people can't take some lies as such, they attach to it as the other lies don't fit their needs. So some people need religions.
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(Dec 12, 2018, 08:56 am)dueda Wrote: So some people need religions.
Some do need it, and some argue religion is useful for society.
Neither of those makes religion true though.
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That's what I am saying. Lie is life and living is lying.
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(Dec 12, 2018, 07:17 am)politux Wrote: True, but we can also use critical thinking to tell fact from fiction and truth from lies.
When someone tells me that a person can rise from the dead or turn water into wine without any evidence I remain skeptical.
"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence" - Christopher Hitchens.
The burden of proof is squarely on the shoulders of the theist, as he is making the claim that his imaginary friend exists.
I ask where is the evidence, he doesn't have any, so I don't believe in his imaginary friend.
Tell that to some of the religious zealots in Waterbury...
It's almost like their fear of critical thinking paralyzes them into stupidity. It's like they can't question the bible but they break his rules like animals and think that's OK? That's the frustrating part... People like that you just leave alone...No way can they change...
I think I posted elsewhere that someone told me the sea was parted due to God's divine grace??? The bible is a built-in book of excuses that allow people to avoid any type of logic/reasonable thought...
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Funny you mention Moses parting the sea. The Israeli archaeologists went looking for anything to confirm the story of Moses, Mt. Sinai and the Ten Commandments. They found nothing. Exodus never happened, Moses isn't even a historical figure.
Quote:William Dever: From the beginnings of what we call biblical archeology, perhaps 150 years ago, scholars, mostly western scholars, have attempted to use archeological data to prove the Bible. And for a long time it was thought to work. [William Foxwell] Albright, the great father of our discipline, often spoke of the "archeological revolution." Well, the revolution has come but not in the way that Albright thought. The truth of the matter today is that archeology raises more questions about the historicity of the Hebrew Bible and even the New Testament than it provides answers, and that's very disturbing to some people.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/ar...rew-bible/
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(Dec 12, 2018, 09:08 am)dueda Wrote: That's what I am saying. Lie is life and living is lying.
Lies, in the form of fantasies are an absolute prerequisite for human civilisation.
Without them, there are only two truths:
Eat or be eaten.
Everything dies.
Religion, culture, art provide the blinds so that we can forget those facts.
Illusions are not necessarily bad - but they should be of sufficient quality to minimize unintended consequences.
Beliief in the gods is not necessarily bad, as even opiates can be beneficial. Its learning to create the best gods that is the challenge. The ones that motivate towards humanism, social democracy, and overall respect for life and liberty while avoiding nihilism (inherent in all transcendent religions).
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