VIRUS may be the most disappointing riff yet

[javelinbunny]

Most of the commenters here seem to basically agree on the newer riffs being bad and the movies themselves crossing well over the funny-bad threshold. However people's insistence on advertising their political signifiers and others who don't share them getting agitated by it and reacting with their own signifiers, seems to be the cause of all the uncalled for antagonism.

...Which ties into the what I see as the root, and likely irrevocable, problem with recent riffs including of mainstream movies: MKB+whoever is working under their ambit are ill-equipped to comment on this era of cultural production. Different generation, different world-historical moment, different phase of cultural hegemony. They're very good at running hilarious loops around the concept of the universally recognized blockbuster top 100 of all time phenom. "Barbenheimer" or "Succession" not so much. They'd need a whole other set of comedic (and analytical) tools and those are too far removed from what they know and are used to. Culture has become self-critical in a way that just can't be riffed in the manner of Bill at the end of A New Hope saying so... THAT, the movie we just watched... THAT is Star Wars? Or Mike at the beginning of Twilight, coldly calculated to pander to YOUR shrieking demographic.

Entertainment now comes as a seamless package of the actual movie/tv show and a discourse around it comprised of both real and internet celebs commenting on it from different perspectives - either telling you it's the worst thing ever because a ciswhitemale isn't starring in a role that starred a ciswhitemale in the original, or pointing out how it "brilliantly" highlights issues that no one wants to talk about. Even though everyone is talking about them, in the exact same way, proceeding from the same assumptions and principles, but coldly calculated to present itself in agreement with the demographic they're pandering to and vehemently opposed to its cultural/political enemies.

Making fun of all that is... risky. You would have to attack the premise of the self-critical posture itself, talk about politics in a way guaranteed to piss of both "sides" of the "culture war" (including the "neutral" one)... without thereby being "apolitical". Say things that would depress your audience instead of giving them fodder for chuckling at an undeservingly popular/profitable film they hate. It wouldn't be a commodifiable experience because it'd have to be deliberately designed to subvert the process of cultural commodification. At that point you're writing a thesis or reddit post, not doing "comedy" whatever that even means. I think "comedy" in general has probably run its course as a form of pseudo-populist pseudo-social critique. We're all George Carlins now, flapping our fat cheeto-stained fingers on our keyboards; posting about TDS, BDS, maybe even HBD if you're really cool and edgy.

The only recent riff I actually liked, and bought, was the Dune one (but pirated bsg4u's excellent mkv from here because syncing and mixing hurts my tiny OCD-riddled brain). Listening to/watching that however I hallucinated youtube thumbnails with titles like Dune SUBVERTS conservatism?... Dune is BRILLIANT and doesn't even realise it... What Dune TEACHES us about loneliness etc etc. I just couldn't stop thinking about them. Basically what I'm saying is, rifftrax does kinda suck these days but they can't do much about it. It's not really their fault, it was good when it was good because we live in a society - would be my "nuanced" tldr.

[Cephus]

It's not that Rifftrax sucks, it's the modern world sucks. That's the problem.

[inelegy]

imo, the quality of any riff is affected by the film, and RiffTrax in particular have been bogged down in a lot of bad '90s and '00s films that barely qualify as movies. For me, the sweet spots for riffing seems to be '50s-'80s films, generally speaking.

And Frank's reliance on politics has gotten tedious for me. It pulls me out of the brief escape from the irl horror that I'm seeking when watching a goodbad movie being riffed.

[Otrader]

imo, the quality of any riff is affected by the film, and RiffTrax in particular have been bogged down in a lot of bad '90s and '00s films that barely qualify as movies.  For me, the sweet spots for riffing seems to be '50s-'80s films, generally speaking.

And Frank's reliance on politics has gotten tedious for me.  It pulls me out of the brief escape from the irl horror that I'm seeking when watching a goodbad movie being riffed.

The 50s - 80s era was the sweet spot for Rifftrax/MST3k.  I too don't care for the political jokes.

[Miss Martian]

Most of the commenters here seem to basically agree on the newer riffs being bad and the movies themselves crossing well over the funny-bad threshold. However people's insistence on advertising their political signifiers and others who don't share them getting agitated by it and reacting with their own signifiers, seems to be the cause of all the uncalled for antagonism.

...Which ties into the what I see as the root, and likely irrevocable, problem with recent riffs including of mainstream movies: MKB+whoever is working under their ambit are ill-equipped to comment on this era of cultural production. Different generation, different world-historical moment, different phase of cultural hegemony. They're very good at running hilarious loops around the concept of the universally recognized blockbuster top 100 of all time phenom. "Barbenheimer" or "Succession" not so much. They'd need a whole other set of comedic (and analytical) tools and those are too far removed from what they know and are used to. Culture has become self-critical in a way that just can't be riffed in the manner of Bill at the end of A New Hope saying so... THAT, the movie we just watched... THAT is Star Wars? Or Mike at the beginning of Twilight, coldly calculated to pander to YOUR shrieking demographic.

Entertainment now comes as a seamless package of the actual movie/tv show and a discourse around it comprised of both real and internet celebs commenting on it from different perspectives - either telling you it's the worst thing ever because a ciswhitemale isn't starring in a role that starred a ciswhitemale in the original, or pointing out how it "brilliantly" highlights issues that no one wants to talk about. Even though everyone is talking about them, in the exact same way, proceeding from the same assumptions and principles, but coldly calculated to present itself in agreement with the demographic they're pandering to and vehemently opposed to its cultural/political enemies.

Making fun of all that is... risky. You would have to attack the premise of the self-critical posture itself, talk about politics in a way guaranteed to piss of both "sides" of the "culture war" (including the "neutral" one)... without thereby being "apolitical". Say things that would depress your audience instead of giving them fodder for chuckling at an undeservingly popular/profitable film they hate. It wouldn't be a commodifiable experience because it'd have to be deliberately designed to subvert the process of cultural commodification. At that point you're writing a thesis or reddit post, not doing "comedy" whatever that even means. I think "comedy" in general has probably run its course as a form of pseudo-populist pseudo-social critique. We're all George Carlins now, flapping our fat cheeto-stained fingers on our keyboards; posting about TDS, BDS, maybe even HBD if you're really cool and edgy.

The only recent riff I actually liked, and bought, was the Dune one (but pirated bsg4u's excellent mkv from here because syncing and mixing hurts my tiny OCD-riddled brain). Listening to/watching that however I hallucinated youtube thumbnails with titles like Dune SUBVERTS conservatism?... Dune is BRILLIANT and doesn't even realise it... What Dune TEACHES us about loneliness etc etc. I just couldn't stop thinking about them. Basically what I'm saying is, rifftrax does kinda suck these days but they can't do much about it. It's not really their fault, it was good when it was good because we live in a society - would be my "nuanced" tldr.

thats because most of the people on here are triggered old boomers yelling at clouds. Some riffs are better than others. Often depending greatly on the source material.

[SuspiriaTrumpsItFollowsCrap]

Most of the commenters here seem to basically agree on the newer riffs being bad and the movies themselves crossing well over the funny-bad threshold. However people's insistence on advertising their political signifiers and others who don't share them getting agitated by it and reacting with their own signifiers, seems to be the cause of all the uncalled for antagonism.

...Which ties into the what I see as the root, and likely irrevocable, problem with recent riffs including of mainstream movies: MKB+whoever is working under their ambit are ill-equipped to comment on this era of cultural production. Different generation, different world-historical moment, different phase of cultural hegemony. They're very good at running hilarious loops around the concept of the universally recognized blockbuster top 100 of all time phenom. "Barbenheimer" or "Succession" not so much. They'd need a whole other set of comedic (and analytical) tools and those are too far removed from what they know and are used to. Culture has become self-critical in a way that just can't be riffed in the manner of Bill at the end of A New Hope saying so... THAT, the movie we just watched... THAT is Star Wars? Or Mike at the beginning of Twilight, coldly calculated to pander to YOUR shrieking demographic.

Entertainment now comes as a seamless package of the actual movie/tv show and a discourse around it comprised of both real and internet celebs commenting on it from different perspectives - either telling you it's the worst thing ever because a ciswhitemale isn't starring in a role that starred a ciswhitemale in the original, or pointing out how it "brilliantly" highlights issues that no one wants to talk about. Even though everyone is talking about them, in the exact same way, proceeding from the same assumptions and principles, but coldly calculated to present itself in agreement with the demographic they're pandering to and vehemently opposed to its cultural/political enemies.

Making fun of all that is... risky. You would have to attack the premise of the self-critical posture itself, talk about politics in a way guaranteed to piss of both "sides" of the "culture war" (including the "neutral" one)... without thereby being "apolitical". Say things that would depress your audience instead of giving them fodder for chuckling at an undeservingly popular/profitable film they hate. It wouldn't be a commodifiable experience because it'd have to be deliberately designed to subvert the process of cultural commodification. At that point you're writing a thesis or reddit post, not doing "comedy" whatever that even means. I think "comedy" in general has probably run its course as a form of pseudo-populist pseudo-social critique. We're all George Carlins now, flapping our fat cheeto-stained fingers on our keyboards; posting about TDS, BDS, maybe even HBD if you're really cool and edgy.

The only recent riff I actually liked, and bought, was the Dune one (but pirated bsg4u's excellent mkv from here because syncing and mixing hurts my tiny OCD-riddled brain). Listening to/watching that however I hallucinated youtube thumbnails with titles like Dune SUBVERTS conservatism?... Dune is BRILLIANT and doesn't even realise it... What Dune TEACHES us about loneliness etc etc. I just couldn't stop thinking about them. Basically what I'm saying is, rifftrax does kinda suck these days but they can't do much about it. It's not really their fault, it was good when it was good because we live in a society - would be my "nuanced" tldr.

thats because most of the people on here are triggered old boomers yelling at clouds. Some riffs are better than others. Often depending greatly on the source material.

This rather implies that you denigrated "most of the people here", without bothering to say what constitutes a good riff (which is on-topic) or does not (to you, personally).  And there was no apostrophe in "thats" (in your comment). It should be "that's".  Talk about the construction of the jokes, since the bulk of riff comedy in rifftrax is scripted-comedy rather than impromptu "off the cuff" remarks.

Yes, Josh Elvis, as a young man, bailed out from MST3K due to a dispute regarding his desire to use unscripted comedy rather than "blathering" without preparation or forethought, but both he (and riffing) grew up a great deal from that point in history.  Which leads to a point regarding rifftraxian comedy (and all riff-comedy) which I implied, but did not directly state, as follows:

The need for, and value of, "evergreen" jokes.

Which is entirely on-topic, and not "performative".

When any riffer makes a jibe about something that has been an issue for more than 40 years, it's an "evergreen" joke.  If someone makes a joke about Mitt Romney, it dies on the vine like a sour grape. Nobody under the age of 35 really knows why they were so lucky Mitt never became the "POTUS".  And that's why evergreen and perpetually funny jokes matter.  That's why many Cinematic Titanic and classic MST3K jokes and Riftraxian jokes matter.  But few (if any) "youtube or twitch"  reaction-video jokes matter in the context of this thread.

Evergreen joke construction matters to networks such as Nickelodeon, which has re-run classic evergreen comedy such as the comedy created by Flip Wilson and many other comedic success-stories.  Therefore, for the sake of staying on topic for this thread, I suggest it behooves you to state - directly - what your definition of a properly-comprised and conceived WRITTEN joke would be.  And as the mods know, I answered that myself, earlier on this thread, staying on-topic.

Here are some suggestions for jokes which are "evergreen":

The misbehaviors of Rasputin (a bit of a deep dive, but MST3K made a Calvinist joke, so... so be it).
The rigours and challenges of [true] PTSD, previously referred to as "shell-shock", which is not receiving the respect it deserves (now more than a century-old).
The crappiness of the toy industry (again, more than a century old, thus, "evergreen").
How producers take advantage of actors (again, more than a century old).

Etc, etc, etc..

Explain the comedy you wish to hear.  THAT is "on topic".

[Miss Martian]

And Frank's reliance on politics has gotten tedious for me.  It pulls me out of the brief escape from the irl horror that I'm seeking when watching a goodbad movie being riffed.

IMHO  - Frank and Trace speaking their minds freely is one of the best things about their riffs. 

My bet is that it's less about ruining your escapism, and more about their politics.

(And for those in back who need it repeated: Not being political is an extremely political position).

[1500cc]

And Frank's reliance on politics has gotten tedious for me.  It pulls me out of the brief escape from the irl horror that I'm seeking when watching a goodbad movie being riffed.

IMHO  - Frank and Trace speaking their minds freely is one of the best things about their riffs. 

My bet is that it's less about ruining your escapism, and more about their politics.

(And for those in back who need it repeated: Not being political is an extremely political position).

IMHO  - Frank and Trace speaking their minds freely is one of the best things about their riffs. 
Let's be honest here, would you say the same thing if all of their comments were pro-MAGA stuff?

(And for those in back who need it repeated: Not being political is an extremely political position).
I don't even know what that means.  Most folks don't want politics and political opinions forced upon them at every turn.  A content creator choosing to respect that isn't being "extremely political", they're just being respectful.  And smart enough to understand that others may have valid reasons for thinking differently than them.

[Gingher]

IMHO  - Frank and Trace speaking their minds freely is one of the best things about their riffs. 
Let's be honest here, would you say the same thing if all of their comments were pro-MAGA stuff?

(And for those in back who need it repeated: Not being political is an extremely political position).
I don't even know what that means.  Most folks don't want politics and political opinions forced upon them at every turn.  A content creator choosing to respect that isn't being "extremely political", they're just being respectful.  And smart enough to understand that others may have valid reasons for thinking differently than them.

Mike gets plenty of hate just for "being" Christian. Not for jokes, just for being. Or suspicion of having voted for a Republican once. And it's really vicious, unhinged hate. Meanwhile, go watch Frank and Co. in something like East Meets Watts on Cinematic Titanic. Mike is the single biggest reason for MST's success and the ongoing other riffing businesses and he's the only one who really practices empathy, acceptance of others and all the stuff others claim they believe in. The reason people don't want to hear Frank's politics is because they're cartoon caricature hate speech and usually so hypocritical you can't imagine them thinking about anything, just hating whoever they perceive as "the other".

[stormium]

the topic is: VIRUS may be the most disappointing riff yet

post on topic or don’t post at all.