What is the point of the uploads thread?

[ThunderHerd]

Serious question because someone has suggested an uploads forum would be a better idea and because I don't think everyone actually agrees on what the idea is in the first place.

The "obvious" answer is that it lets you see what is being uploaded. But simply clicking on https://thepiratebay.org/search/daz3d/0/3/0 does an even better job of that because it includes things that people forget to post about in the uploads thread and also uploads by people who don't post on the forum at all.

Perhaps the idea is to allow you to post the sort of descriptions you would like to post on your torrents (or direct downloads) if it were possible to do so.

Or perhaps it is to get feedback on your uploads (again, because TPB and direct download sites don't really do a great job of facilitating that).

Or perhaps it is a way for you to compete with each other, in a friendly rivalry sort of way to the benefit of all.

I don't know, and I suspect you will each have different ideas about it's purpose.

Note that I'm not attacking the thread, I'm just interested to hear what it is about it that people value (which will help determine whether it needs tweaking in any way).

Um-m, all of the above...

[wolfenspiel]

LOLZ @ ThunderHerd!

OK...to start, one benefit of the upload thread, and a forum, is the ability to post images. Not everyone clicks outside links, some malicious links can be easily disguised, and not everyone clicks linksto look at images posted on another site (example- porn) for that reason. At KAT, my typical rule of thumb was, if there was a discrepancy in file size or format between uploaders who may or may not have shared the same content, or if it was a "new" item being posted, the one that would get the download would be the one who provided images and followed a proper "accepted" protocol. Bots and spammers typically don't waste time and effort going the extra mile to add images and the like. As for "why not look and see if it's a "Trusted Uploader", well... sometimes even a Trusted Uploader gets lazy, or gets hit with a virus.

Why a subforum is better than a thread, I already posted, but for anyone who missed it- not everyone's images are the same size. One page may have 3 uploads listed, while the next page has 10, because some of these images are showing up as full size images, while others are nice and compact. If everyone knew how to resize an image, it would be nice, but some folks either don't get it, or just don't want to take the few seconds it takes. If you have a subforum, and every upload is posted in it's own thread, it takes less time to glance down the recent posts and click on the item you may be interested in, and see the image etc., than it does having to scroll though a page or two of extra-large pictures and tiny thumbs. It also lets you know quickly not only that there are new items posted, but what they are, without having to first look and see if there are new posts in the upload thread, and then scan through the new pages only to see somebody asking questions or holding a conversation in the wrong thread, before you even get to the "meat" of the thread.

Now, as for DUPLICATES... there's good reasons for more than one person uploading the same product, such as different formats (older items came in exe's, for example, not archives), and yes sometimes things get DMCA'd by one person but not another right away, or an item is updated.... HOWEVER, OUR general rule of thumb has been to try NOT to duplicate uploads, because A- they get confusing, B- sometimes file sizes vary and you don't know if someone just forgot to de-spam something, or if it's got a virus, C- some douchebags like to take credit for somebody else's uploads (as if it matters at this point, but hey...some of us are as petty as the "scenes" people...gotta have our tag and gotta be first, LOL!) It's easier to spot duplicates when you can search a subforum for a particular item, and see immediately 2 threads with it.We can also see if it's an update for an item, something with the same name, etc. Then we can notify that uploader either that A- it's already been uploaded, or B- keep your upload if you choose, but remove your post, as it's nothing more than a duplicate...like someone having a library, with the same novels on every shelf. Redundant.

As for FEEDBACK, that is another good thing about a subforum and separate threads for each upload. It gives you the ability to ask questions about the item, or to ask if anyone else is having troubles downloading it (as one needed to do), without taking up unnecessary space with off-topic chatter, as it does when we only have a single thread for all uploads.

The only REAL downside I see is that those threads, just like any other sharing thread, can easily become filled with the same issues we discussed in the other community- unnecessary "Thanks" posts.... grrrrrr.......

That can be solved though, if necessary, in the same manner. (a single,dedicated THANKS thread, I mean....not a flamewar,lol!)

Anyhow, a subforum for uploads does have it's uses to our kind of community in the same way a subforum for requests has for most communities. With Requests, you can see when requests have been filled and can mark them as SOLVED...although it does sort of cut in on the "wishlist" thing we had going. (I never used it personally, and only asked for something when I "needed" it, but that's just my own personality). With Uploads, you get images, feedback, more reliable searching on occasion (no "Database Error" either! ), and for some of us who maybe enjoy or help seed uploads from/for the group, it's a central place to see new uploads by group members ("most" of us use this forum and/or direct people to it when we can), rather than for example, looking for a thread of NEW UPLOADS BY BEAGLEBANDIT, NEW UPLOADS BY THUNDERHERD, NEW UPLOADS BY SATAN.....and several other single threads in another forum that really all serves the same purpose as posting them HERE, in one central location. With us, we're individuals, but we work within the group to serve that group. Most others with "release" threads post either a variety of things like books, movies, music, and games... OR, they are representative of a specific release group. That sort of thing just doesn't suit us. We aren't in it for the vanity, only a couple of us post anything other than Daz/Poser items, we aren't coding or cracking anything, and we only service a niche. It doesn't serve our purposes to each have individual release threads here or elsewhere.

Not sure if this helps, or answers any questions without creating more, but...it's my mindset, from my own experiences here, KAT, and elsewhere.

[Sid]

It definitely helps. And it's a commendable effort in it's own right, thanks for taking the time.

It will take some ruminating on but in the meantime if anything else has any thoughts please share them. The aim is to improve the community so it is in your own best interests to contribute (whether you're an old hand or a neophyte--to thrive, the community needs to serve the needs of as wide a spectrum of up/downloaders as possible).

[kavana]

With regard to the Upload Thread, I don't know if the facility already exists and I can't find it, but is it possible to have the Thread show uploads in "Reverse Chronological Order"? i.e. Page 17 to page 1, the latest at the front.

[Sid]

No, that's not a feature supported by this version of the forum software. I *think" it might be supported by the v2, but that's been promised for literally years so I don't know when it will be released (or when we will upgrade, which won't be immediately).

In the meantime, what I do is click on "Last Post" and then scroll up, rather than on the thread title and then scroll down. You can also click on the "go to first unread post" icon.

[Sid]

OK...to start, one benefit of the upload thread, and a forum, is the ability to post images. Not everyone clicks outside links, some malicious links can be easily disguised, and not everyone clicks linksto look at images posted on another site (example- porn) for that reason. At KAT, my typical rule of thumb was, if there was a discrepancy in file size or format between uploaders who may or may not have shared the same content, or if it was a "new" item being posted, the one that would get the download would be the one who provided images and followed a proper "accepted" protocol. Bots and spammers typically don't waste time and effort going the extra mile to add images and the like. As for "why not look and see if it's a "Trusted Uploader", well... sometimes even a Trusted Uploader gets lazy, or gets hit with a virus.

Sound advice but irrelevant in this context as file sizes and formats etc. are never mentioned. And many fakes include images. Trust me on that, I delete thousands of fakes most days.

You could argue that fakes are extremely unlikely in an uploads forum (and even less likely in an uploads thread, because more eyes will be upon them) but the problem with that approach is that it a) excludes the many legitimate uploads that aren't posted about and b) isolates people from gaining the sort of experience and knowledge you have gained.

In the long run it would be better for everyone to educate people about where content can be found, and how to determine whether it is valid or not. Rather than babying people with a small subset of content that they needn't ever think about.

Why a subforum is better than a thread, I already posted, but for anyone who missed it- not everyone's images are the same size. One page may have 3 uploads listed, while the next page has 10, because some of these images are showing up as full size images, while others are nice and compact. If everyone knew how to resize an image, it would be nice, but some folks either don't get it, or just don't want to take the few seconds it takes. If you have a subforum, and every upload is posted in it's own thread, it takes less time to glance down the recent posts and click on the item you may be interested in, and see the image etc., than it does having to scroll though a page or two of extra-large pictures and tiny thumbs. It also lets you know quickly not only that there are new items posted, but what they are, without having to first look and see if there are new posts in the upload thread, and then scan through the new pages only to see somebody asking questions or holding a conversation in the wrong thread, before you even get to the "meat" of the thread.

True dat. But the fundamental problem I have with upload threads/forums is that they are incomplete. Always.

When I'm up for downloading something I'm in one of two "modes". Either I'm after something specific, in which case I search for it on TPB or wider afield if I cannot find it there. But I never look in uploads threads/forums because they're only ever a subset of what is available in the places I am already looking. Then I evaluate whatever I find.

Or I'm "just browsing" in the hope that something will catch my eye. Again, I do that from primary sources, not tiny subsets (even if the tiny subsets have better visuals).

It's easier to spot duplicates when you can search a subforum for a particular item, and see immediately 2 threads with it.

That's not actually true:
1. Not everything is ever posted in a thread/forum
2. Unless they're named identically (which cannot be relied upon) so that an alphabetical sort positions them contiguously, or uploaded almost simultaneously (which again cannot be relied upon) so that a chronological sort does likewise, then the only way to find them is to search, and searches can return posts just as easily as threads.

Then we can notify that uploader either that A- it's already been uploaded, or B- keep your upload if you choose, but remove your post, as it's nothing more than a duplicate...like someone having a library, with the same novels on every shelf. Redundant.

That wouldn't be acceptable. Seriously. I understand your reasoning but without uploads none of us would be here. Anyone telling anyone who has gone out of their way to share something freely to take their sharing back would find themselves in hot water. It's better (or "less worse" if you choose to characterise it that way) for everyone to have too many uploads than too few. [This isn't targeted at you guys, it's general TPB policy, but nor would an exception be made for you guys.] If you're going to do that, do it via PM's (and cross your fingers that nobody reports you).

As for FEEDBACK, that is another good thing about a subforum and separate threads for each upload. It gives you the ability to ask questions about the item, or to ask if anyone else is having troubles downloading it (as one needed to do), without taking up unnecessary space with off-topic chatter, as it does when we only have a single thread for all uploads.

I'm sorry but I don't buy that. There is quite a bit of chatter within the uploads thread (so people are not reticent) but very little of it is feedback about the uploads. And technical questions are better not asked in there (or in an uploads forum) anyway. In just reviewing that thread I've found several issues I could and would have helped with had they been posted in the proper place.

The only REAL downside I see is that those threads, just like any other sharing thread, can easily become filled with the same issues we discussed in the other community- unnecessary "Thanks" posts.... grrrrrr.......

Oh that wouldn't be allowed to become a problem, I guarantee that.

Anyhow, a subforum for uploads does have it's uses to our kind of community in the same way a subforum for requests has for most communities. With Requests, you can see when requests have been filled and can mark them as SOLVED...although it does sort of cut in on the "wishlist" thing we had going. (I never used it personally, and only asked for something when I "needed" it, but that's just my own personality). With Uploads, you get images, feedback, more reliable searching on occasion (no "Database Error" either!  ), and for some of us who maybe enjoy or help seed uploads from/for the group, it's a central place to see new uploads by group members ("most" of us use this forum and/or direct people to it when we can), rather than for example, looking for a thread of NEW UPLOADS BY BEAGLEBANDIT, NEW UPLOADS BY THUNDERHERD, NEW UPLOADS BY SATAN.....and several other single threads in another forum that really all serves the same purpose as posting them HERE, in one central location. With us, we're individuals, but we work within the group to serve that group. Most others with "release" threads post either a variety of things like books, movies, music, and games... OR, they are representative of a specific release group. That sort of thing just doesn't suit us. We aren't in it for the vanity, only a couple of us post anything other than Daz/Poser items, we aren't coding or cracking anything, and we only service a niche. It doesn't serve our purposes to each have individual release threads here or elsewhere.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. The uploads thread is a lousy way of spreading knowledge of uploads but it's a great way of fostering group cohesion.

[Serpent2016]

Mostly because search functions tend to suck. I am not sure about what is going on at TPB, but every time I do a search, then click on page 2, I get an error page that says "Database maintenance, please check back in 10 minutes. $trim"

[Dipole-Dipole]

I like the idea of a sub-forum for uploads, BUT it would have to be organized in a logical way IMO. There are too many categories to split by content type, and lots of things are vague in what they would be categorized as.
You could have V4,V5,V6 threads, or M4,M5,M6, etc.
OR Clothes, characters, shoes, hair, morphs, objs, environments, lights, shaders, etc.

But I think it would be easier to split by user. For example a user thread inside the uploads Sub-forum where all their uploads go. When they add something new, it floats to the top of the board and everyone can check it out. This would eliminate arguments about categories or improper sorting, also would encourage sharing because people would want to have their own thread with useful uploads in it.
On KAT I would always check particular user's uploads because certain people have similar tastes to your own, also some people only upload Genesis 3 stuff, some only V4 stuff, and most of us know who's who. Separate users' uploads threads would mirror this functionality.
Just my 2 cents

[Kooroe]

For me personal I just like to see a image of the item up for download. If the site had this built in to the torrent uploads. I don't think there would really be a need for the uploads thread. so basely i am lazy.

[Sid]

Mostly because search functions tend to suck. I am not sure about what is going on at TPB, but every time I do a search, then click on page 2, I get an error page that says "Database maintenance, please check back in 10 minutes. $trim"

That's been mentioned before (and it genuinely bewilders me). I'd much rather have a search engine that didn't always work but, when it did, showed me most everything than one which always worked but never showed me more than a fraction. It would be different if sharing were time-critical, but it isn't really. A few weeks or months might make a difference between a new upload still being seeded or not but a few minutes, hours or even days won't.

[Re. what database maintenance really means, and ways you can work around it, is already covered in the Site Issues forum so I'm not going to repeat it all here but you should take a look.]

You could have V4,V5,V6 threads, or M4,M5,M6, etc.
OR Clothes, characters, shoes, hair, morphs, objs, environments, lights, shaders, etc.

That's the problem with categories: you can't even agree with yourself on which way would be best. Getting everyone to agree is impossible.

Tags are an alternative, allowing multiple overlapping categorizations, but in a way that's worse because things don't get tagged, get "over tagged" or tagged inconsistently.

But I think it would be easier to split by user.

vs.

...for some of us who maybe enjoy or help seed uploads from/for the group, it's a central place to see new uploads by group members, rather than for example, looking for a thread of NEW UPLOADS BY BEAGLEBANDIT, NEW UPLOADS BY THUNDERHERD, NEW UPLOADS BY SATAN.....and several other single threads in another forum that really all serves the same purpose as posting them HERE, in one central location. With us, we're individuals, but we work within the group to serve that group.

Again, there is no "right" answer. Whatever we do, it won't satisfy everyone all of the time.

For me personal I just like to see a image of the item up for download. If the site had this built in to the torrent uploads. I don't think there would really be a need for the uploads thread. so basely i am lazy.

It's a valid point--visuals (when they're not overdone) are genuinely useful. I'd restore them to TPB if I could and I don't understand why Winston hasn't. Hopefully he will do so one day.