Of all the things to be called a racist for...

[soulcity]

I think that the flag and statues should stay, because if we don;t remember our history we will have no point of reference to better ourselves. ALSO, are we better people or bigger shitheads by erasing what was done and pretending it never hapened??? I say we need to own our foolishness....

History has a human face and I want to see that face, warts and all.

The civil war was never about liberating the slaves and even Abraham Lincoln didn't care if the slaves were freed or not.   There were slaves in the North just like the South and there were a lot of white slaves too.

The American civil war was about Southern independence and we almost had it.   President Lincoln only used the issue of liberating the slaves in order to keep several European nations from giving financial support to the Southern States.  

So the Confederate flag has nothing to do with keeping slaves.  But when it comes to education, America's inner city schools and schools with a large percentage of African American children are a pathetic joke. 

You would cringe with horror and fear if you ever spent a day in one of those schools.  The teachers are trying damn hard to teach those kids but the students are violent, ignorant, stoned, etc. 

A huge percent of those kids don't even know who their father is and their mother is not much better.  Children as young as 2 have been left alone in the home for days at a time while the mother is out partying, getting laid or doing drugs.

My point is that what keeps Black Americans down is Black Americans.

[ill88eagle]

So the Confederate flag has nothing to do with keeping slaves. 

A dick has nothing to do with rape but I sure as hell dont go around waving mine in public, warts and all, to show the ladies that all sexes matter and they should just STFU about rape already

Trigger warning

Trigger warning

[soulcity]

So the Confederate flag has nothing to do with keeping slaves. 

A dick has nothing to do with rape but I sure as hell dont go around waving mine in public, warts and all, to show the ladies that all sexes matter and they should just STFU about rape already

Trigger warning

Trigger warning

I bet you've got no problem showing your face in public.  Just in case your mother forgot to tell you but you're only supposed to smell an asshole and not see one walking around in public... Hair, pimples and all.

[waregim]

@SC. Actually Lincoln planned to have Blacks shipped back to Africa. Until the Repugs realized they would be perfect stooges as proxies to dominate southern state governments as most whitre southerners were banned from running due to being part of the 'rebellion'. And also a sudden mass of voters for the party that could swing national elections as well.

In personal letters, he frequently referred to them as ni**ers, a term that was NOT politically correct, even in those days. I have been through thousands of southern antebellum court records and seen that term used exactly once, and in a clearly pejorative manner (referring to possible slave revolt).

The war was started at Fort Sumter - a Customs House, as the southern states, then having the rights of individual nations, objected to the Federal tariffs imposed on them, and that favored the northern industrial states.

Back then it was THESE United States.

A major difference from today, and everything that Jefferson fought a war against

It should be noted that prior to the revolution that slavery was widespread in the colonies, but in the northeast, where the soils were poor and the growing seasons short, it wasnt practical due to the expense of maintaining slaves, as well as that the Methodism gaining prominence was abolitionist. Only a faction of Quakers there anti-slavery - or more accurately, anti-kidnapping. Other Quakers were involved in the Philadelphia slave trade.

So most northern states abolished slavery in a slow manner. Current slaves would remain, no new ones added. Slavery existed in New Jersey until around 1860. It was part of some state laws until 1906.

In reality, it was not Lincoln who freed the slaves, but Cyrus McCormick. The mechanization of agriculture made slavery inefficient. The problem was old and infirm slaves, where masters had to put out sizable amounts to bond of free them from the responsibilites of caring for them. And when freed, they were forced to leave their state, and families.

By 1880's most slaves were free in the Americas. Even the ones the plantation owners of the South brought to South America in an exodus never mentioned in the history books.

Before the evil prison system that drove people mad came into being, a common sentence for criminals of all colors was slavery, though often for a stated term. While it was not legal to kill slaves, they could be 'punished' to death with no limits on lashes at the whipping post. Especially in a world without antibiotics.

The original slaves, by the way, were Irishmen. The Brits did have a corporation to start Indian slaving on the East Coast in the 1740's but that disappeared without a trace, possibly due to effects from the French and Indian wars. The English also happlily enslaved wandering Dutchmen and Swedes. The first Black slaves were bought by John Rolfe, hubby of Pocohontas, whose father was a genocidal maniac capturing and murdering (and presumably enslaving) neighboring tribes.
Most of the hapless thralls of the Middle Passage were sold by conquering tribes, though it is of interest that some were quite educated clerks, but ran afoul of the Dutch affrican administrators.

Nor was slavery particularly associated with racism. Southerners had a particular contempt for the Irish, and regarded them as clearly inferior to Blacks. To call a Black slave a 'Smoked irishman' was a grievous insult.


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[CaptButler]

I think that the flag and statues should stay, because if we don;t remember our history we will have no point of reference to better ourselves. ALSO, are we better people or bigger shitheads by erasing what was done and pretending it never hapened??? I say we need to own our foolishness...

The argument about "erasing history" is essentially bullshit.  If you really intend to erase history, you need to do it old school--like the burning of the Library of Alexandria in ancient Egypt.  Until mobs start attacking libraries, archives and museums to plunder or destroy historical documents and other artifacts, there is no reason to take the erasing history argument seriously.

The pulling down of statues erected to honor military and political leaders is a historic act in itself.  There is a famous and frequently reproduced painting of a crowd pulling down an equestrian statue of George III in NYC in 1776.  Statue decapitation or destruction was also a very frequent expression of dissent in ancient Rome (that, and rioting at the local hippodrome or coliseum).  Not that I am saying it's perfectly ok to do that today.  Not only is there a risk of arrest (because it is undoubtedly illegal), but also a risk of getting hurt or killed if people don't know the proper way to do it (i.e., not a good activity for snowflakes and stupid people).

Sorry... World we live in now...I picked a bad time to get sober...

Hard to argue with this, though . . . .

[LZA]

I think that the flag and statues should stay, because if we don;t remember our history we will have no point of reference to better ourselves. ALSO, are we better people or bigger shitheads by erasing what was done and pretending it never hapened??? I say we need to own our foolishness...

The argument about "erasing history" is essentially bullshit.  If you really intend to erase history, you need to do it old school--like the burning of the Library of Alexandria in ancient Egypt.  Until mobs start attacking libraries, archives and museums to plunder or destroy historical documents and other artifacts, there is no reason to take the erasing history argument seriously.

The pulling down of statues erected to honor military and political leaders is a historic act in itself.  There is a famous and frequently reproduced painting of a crowd pulling down an equestrian statue of George III in NYC in 1776.  Statue decapitation or destruction was also a very frequent expression of dissent in ancient Rome (that, and rioting at the local hippodrome or coliseum).  Not that I am saying it's perfectly ok to do that today.  Not only is there a risk of arrest (because it is undoubtedly illegal), but also a risk of getting hurt or killed if people don't know the proper way to do it (i.e., not a good activity for snowflakes and stupid people).

Sorry... World we live in now...I picked a bad time to get sober...

Hard to argue with this, though . . . .

I think with these snowflakes, ANY action is a good action, regardless of lack of thought that goes into it. There was one video of someone defacing a statue of someone who back in the day fought AGAINST slavery... Can't remember who but I can do some reserch for a name if needed. Basically all statues=racist. And the act is a good thing. AGAIN, this last place trophy culture people expect to be rewarded for any action, good or not.

I also saw a vid of a black guy ripping down BLM posters because he was sick of seeing it, and a fruity white boy trying to tackle him... the BLM movement is a political movement to make us all commies... Qiiksand's brethren who blindly spread agendas... And these white boys/people who blindly follow are just "useful idiots" that help. Manipulated white guilt ironically makes them the new slaves to the cause... As are the blacks who follow BLM.

BLM should be in Chicago trying to stop the killings there... Where are the white snowflakes when real oppressed black people live in fear of losing their life not only to whatever white cop may be ut for them but their black gangsters looking for power??? FUCK BLM...Fucking commie hypocrites.

Don Lemon even admitted BLM is a political movement. NOt an actual concern for Black people (interview with Terry Crews). I should D/L it before it's scrubbed...

These people have no oncept of logic, so things like wearing a confederate flag will only cause you exposure to the virus... Like raw dogging a hooker with aidz...

[ill88eagle]

I also saw a vid of a black guy ripping down BLM posters because he was sick of seeing it, and a fruity white boy trying to tackle him... the BLM movement is a political movement to make us all commies... Qiiksand's brethren who blindly spread agendas... And these white boys/people who blindly follow are just "useful idiots" that help. Manipulated white guilt ironically makes them the new slaves to the cause... As are the blacks who follow BLM.

The thing old chap, is that any set of ideas that addresses, analyzes and critiques inequality systematically AND offers alternatives to divide and conquer monopoly games and trickle down pyramid schemes IS INHERENTLY MARXIST. That does not make it COMMIE though.

As far as statues goes, how did you feel when they pulled down the Lenin statue in ex DDR? Or the Saddam statue in Iraq... And hey, don't you think it's a shame there are no Hitler statues around public spaces in Germany, I mean, it's history right?

[LZA]

The thing old chap, is that any set of ideas that addresses, analyzes and critiques inequality systematically AND offers alternatives to divide and conquer monopoly games and trickle down pyramid schemes IS INHERENTLY MARXIST. That does not make it COMMIE though.

As far as statues goes, how did you feel when they pulled down the Lenin statue in ex DDR? Or the Saddam statue in Iraq... And hey, don't you think it's a shame there are no Hitler statues around public spaces in Germany, I mean, it's history right?

Ahh! Great point as always! i didn't say I was against social programs and thoughts, Just against the politics that is marxism/communism.

Socialist is to Communism as to thinking Black Lives matter is to the BLM movement.

I'm probably more left than right but Am in the middle of the road. I think helping those less fortunate is a human thing to do...Just, it gets convoluted and bastardized with all the politics. Social programs are a good thing that helps people... Communism is a way of politics that has as much evil as democracy.

As far as your statue question? Hitler's history along with the nazis are appropriately in (jewish) museums to see. but not in the open. We should have done the same thing after the war, but the statues were allowed to stay for so long. Now, people get butthurt and NOW they are offensive? NO... People are just looking for shit to do.

Hussein never would allow it, and the people removed him as soon as it was possible.

My thought is that even if the southern statues were on the losing side, they are still Americans, not evil dictators, and I think, the were left as an honor of them being Americans... They should have been removed right after the war ended for me to see the parallel among the scenarios.

[waregim]

Divide and conquer is an ancient political tactic that has nothing to do with socioeconomic systems.
The Romans, the Byzantines, and the Venetians were famous for the tactic.

Somehow I cannot envision them as socialists.

Are the CIA and Mossad socialists?

Iconoclasm is a social mental illness that pops up from time to time for the past 2500 years.
It is after all the First Commandment in the bible. (OT).
Though the Egyptians did try to erase all vestiges og Atenism.

[ill88eagle]

Divide and conquer is an ancient political tactic that has nothing to do with socioeconomic systems.

Uhm- how is politically planned and executed segregation not divide and qonquer on a socioeconomic scale?