MST3K 1304 "Munchie"

[inelegy]

Generally speaking in most fandoms I think there are two types of "serious" (as opposed to casual) fan.  One is the "True Believer" who will unquestioningly accept and champion anything that the brand releases.  The other is a more "Discerning Fan" who will have an arbitrary line beyond which the brand has moved too far from producing the thing that fan originally came there for and they no longer find it satisfying or interesting.

True Believers can be closely compared to sports fans, although the exist across all entertainments.  If you're the fan of a team, it doesn't matter who is playing for that team in order for you to enjoy it.  There are lots of people who'll fill stadiums to see their brand.  There are plenty of people, apparently, who'll drink down any Star Wars or Star Trek -branded science fiction product no matter what.  This is not an indictment of these people, but not everyone is wired that way.

My go-to comparison rubric for Discerning Fans is rock bands.  As an example, for me, one of my all-time favorite bands is coincidentally MST3K favorite Yes.  As a Yes fan, I have a sweet spot where I believe they were producing their best work and had the best people involved.  Time went by, band members aged, left, came back, left again, are replaced by new people, and (in some cases) died.  Through this decades-long process the band/brand known as Yes was producing a product that I no longer had much interest in.  It still looked a bit like Yes, it sounds a bit like Yes, the music did Yessy things from time to time, but it didn't feel like Yes.  There are True Believers who'll say that they're as good as ever, but that simply is not the case for me.

Joel's version of MST3K has kind of gotten to that point.  It is MST3K-branded product, to be sure, but it doesn't feel quite right to me any more.  This is completely subjective, but for me he has lost or forgotten what it was that made MST3K resonate with me.  There is a calculating, cooked in a lab quality to it that I find off-putting.  It looks a lot like MST, it sounds a bit like MST, but it doesn't feel right any more . . . it feels like Mike Love dragging around some ersatz version of the Beach Boys.  "Feel" is a subjective and arbitrary thing, but fans are allowed to be fans and have an aesthetic beyond which they can't continue.  I'm still a fan of MST (and, for that matter, Yes) because there is a deep back catalog into which I can always dive in and enjoy if the mood strikes.

OTOH, RiffTrax (particularly B&MJ's riffs) and The Mads still have much of the original MST3K magic present, and I find them preferable to the product currently branding itself as MST3K.  These still have a handmade and earnest quality that always existed in "classic" MST that I'm having difficulty detecting in Joel's recent iterations of the product.

YMMV.

[SuspiriaTrumpsItFollowsCrap]

"We don't need another toxic fanbase."

how much did Buzzfeed, VICEmedia, Collider etc. pay you to add that?

I'm guessing whatever a latte costs in Portland.

To keep things on topic, you added "What matters to me is the concept and the riffing -- and that's been consistent throughout every single iteration of this show."

Fundamentally untrue, as proven by truckloads of comments not only on youtbe, but the imdb which differ wildly in their assessment of "/the Jonah Years.  Asserting a falsehood does not render the falsehood true no matter what tweety-land claptrap you may, yourself, ascribe to.

"Jonah" mst3k's response has been mixed, which means it *cannot" be "consistent".

Holy shit you're fucking toxic. Just stop. Look at how fucking pathetic you are. Bonus points for the irony of you trying to say someone saying their opinion has been the show staying funny throughout and you insisting that is NOT true no matter how much or how hard they say it. The sheer IRONY dropping from that statement is just AMAZING. How do you take yourself seriously? How does anyone take you seriously?

The simple fact is this forum is a good indicator that people who feel ENTITLED to free things tend to be absolute pieces of shit. Grow up, most of you.

Sorry to see it was a slow day on 4chan for you when you posted that, brattimus maximus, and that your town apparently ran out of redbull.  Hopefully your baby-sitter can make you some warm cocoa and load the dvd's of Spongebob for ya to soothe your nerves.

Meanwhile, keeping relevant to the thread, according to the Laws of Semiotics as put forth by Umberto Eco himself (which 4ChanBrats are never aware of until prompted by an adult's comment to suckle at the teat of wikiTARDIA and "almost learn" something about his work), comedy is semiotic at its base, and satirical comedy *more so*.

This means that the moment a work is created for the purpose of an audience (rather than the enjoyment of the work's creator), its value/intent/"meaning" becomes two-fold: it is both what the author intended, but also what the audience perceives and receives.  Both consciously, and subconsciously, leading to a final "opinion".

Therefore, despite being blue-haired bluecheckmark 4chanBrats, the tantrums of said brats neither abrogate the opinions of any *other* audience members, nor ever succeed in the toddler-midset desire of "it's us or them, agree w/the hive or suffer." NO matter how it irks Da Bratz, they are only *one slice* of the audience pie, and their slice will never be more important/carry more weight than the other slices.

Addendum: Suffice it to say, that is why said-brats have been miserable failures in trying to re-define the word "toxic" to encompass "unafraid criticism" and "sarcasm", due to the fact that they are incapable of either/both.

[SevenMindsets]

Didn't even make it to the riff before my HTPC self-immolated to escape the cringe. They changed gypsy's name? Why?

[ageekyguy]

Didn't even make it to the riff before my HTPC self-immolated to escape the cringe. They changed gypsy's name? Why?

They changed it because Joel was informed by some fans that some people consider it a slur.  It's been GPC for years now.  It was changed when they started doing the live tours.  I don't have a problem with them changing the name, but GPC just doesn't flow as well and seems like just a terrible compromise of being "close enough but different".

[JusSonic]

Didn't even make it to the riff before my HTPC self-immolated to escape the cringe. They changed gypsy's name? Why?

They changed it because Joel was informed by some fans that some people consider it a slur.  It's been GPC for years now.  It was changed when they started doing the live tours.  I don't have a problem with them changing the name, but GPC just doesn't flow as well and seems like just a terrible compromise of being "close enough but different".

Frankly, I don't care what her name is, it's still Gypsy and not even close to being a slur.