Hold my PBR

[connor17]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre...small-ways

"The would-be autocrat and his cronies remain determined to turn our nation into a racist, kleptocractic dictatorship run entirely by (and for the benefit of) white male billionaires."

"On Thursday night, the news showed the daughter of Guadalupe Garcia de Rayos break down in tears as she described packing a suitcase for her mother to take with her when she was deported to Mexico. I thought of how the European Jews, deported to Poland by the Nazis, were instructed to take with them only the possessions they could fit into a small valise."

[joew771]

I always thought the Guardian was pretty much sh*t, but now I know they are. What an utter load of propangandist f*cktardism. As if deporting someone back to their home country, where they will be reunited with their family and may have to get a crappy job, is the same as sending someone to a concentration camp where they will be tortured and enslaved until they can't work anymore and then gassed and killed and burned to ash.

Pretty much the same thing.

[connor17]

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/38...immigrants

"For many, DACA has created a moral crisis"
"In essence, immigrants with DACA are seen as "innocent" "
"By choosing to focus solely on the "deserving" immigrants, activists and advocates are creating a dangerous dichotomy that leaves millions of other immigrants vulnerable."
"All immigrants deserve protection, regardless of contact with the criminal legal system."

It's interesting that someone sees the hypocrisy in all that. If you are against deportation as principle, then you can not discriminate deportees.

But there are hypocrisies beyond that.
You can not protest depending on who's on command. Obama was the president who deported more people (over 2.5 million), he was the "deporter-in-chief".
You can not cherry-pick laws based on your interests. Rights and duties all derive from the same Law, one thing doesn't come without the other. So the first thing an emigrant should do is to abide by the Law he'd base his demands on.

And maybe the greatest hypocrisy of them all, is the conviction that sending a mexican to Mexico is some kind of curse. That's inherently ethnocentric. Allowing them to stay magnanimously, saving them from themselves, right after denying them their dignity. White supremacy in a nutshell.

[joew771]

Illegal immigrants are by definition illegal. They knew that when they came here. They should be deported according to U.S. law. It doesn't matter if they are 5 years old or 50.

This is nothing new. As connor said, Obama deported millions of people back to mexico and not many people said anything about it. Trump so far has deported a few hundred, but has gotten major criticism for it. And like we both said, sending someone back to their homeland shouldn't be considered a punishment. And if they think it is, maybe they should work on changing Mexico instead of coming illegally into the U.S.

It's not like Mexico is in a state of war and turmoil like Syria or some other countries that people may want to flee from. Mexico is ok, just a lot of poor people. So instead of using all the energy you use to sneak into america, use that energy and passion to try to change your own country.

[Aaron.Walkhouse]

Obama's mass deportation and incarceration of immigrants in privately owned hellholes
has been covered in detail in the press and protested constantly; but the right wing echo
chamber was ignoring it because it's not in their inherently racist, entrenched songbook.

Mexicans immigrate because even illegals in the U.S. have far better lives than in Mexico,
and it's clearly impossible to change Mexico for the better without bloody revolution to
sweep out the massive corruption at every level of government in all corners of the map.

People who were brought in as children before they could be legally held responsible are
factually innocent of crime, though their immigration status leaves them vulnerable to the
racists and political zealots who want to color them as "criminals" and a "threat to America."

That Obama recognized the unfairness of their situation is reason enough for those racists
and zealots to start a forced displacement of these people, reminding them of similar events.

[connor17]

Comparing Mexico with Auschwitz is an insult to all mexicans and to intelligence.

Obama could have given permanent residency to DACA status people, but he chose not to.

To assert what a foreign country can or can't do just shows the condescending attitude of ethnocentric people.

Just using Reductio ad absurdum, if you can't deport someone, because that'd be like sending him to the gas chamber, then you can't deport no one, what means that a country wouldn't have the power to enforce its own laws.

[Ruler_Of_Hell]

Hold My PBR is a misleading title for those of us in the US. Hold My Beer is what a Drunk Redneck always says before doing something stupid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56duVYLsd4Q

[Aaron.Walkhouse]

Comparing Mexico with Auschwitz is an insult to all mexicans and to intelligence.

The comparison above was not made between destinations;
but both forced displacements are still forced displacements.

Obama could have given permanent residency to DACA status people, but he chose not to.

No. ‌ He explicitly could not do that through his own office without a bill.
The republicans certainly wouldn't exercise their own authority as the
House majority either, as they were locked into a plan of obstruction.
This is why DACA was the best he could do for those people.

To assert what a foreign country can or can't do just shows the condescending attitude of ethnocentric people.

To assert that your own country cannot deport or extradite someone
to a probable grievous fate is standard practice in most legal systems.

Just using Reductio ad absurdum, if you can't deport someone, because that'd be like sending him to the gas chamber, then you can't deport no one, what means that a country wouldn't have the power to enforce its own laws.

A law to protect the vulnerable from injustice, and enforcement of same,
doesn't make all law unjust or unenforceable. ‌ Reductio ad absurdum! ‌ ‌

[connor17]

The article linked says that Obama could have done it, by a pardon. You dissent from that.

The idea in the first article, is that no one should be deported, because that would violate his human rights. That is not feasible. 

The second article says that is hypocritical to deport ones but not others, because that distintion is inevitably arbitrary. You say that's not arbitrary, but standardized. I guess the standard depends on who decides how the standard is i.e. the government.

There's no point in comparing with the nazis anyway. A jew counts for 3 or 4 mexicans, at least.

[connor17]

Comparing Mexico with Auschwitz is an insult to all mexicans and to intelligence.

The comparison above was not made between destinations;
but both forced displacements are still forced displacements.

Everytime the word "nazi" appears, the IQ of the discussion drops dramatically.
Nazis sent jews to Poland in stock trains not because they wanted to deport them to Poland, but because that's where the gas chambers were. The purpose was extermination, not deportation. The fact that the trains crossed some countries borders is just anecdotal. They could have built gas chambers in every country, but centralization was more efficient.

But I get your point, Trump is a nazi, so everything he does "is like the nazis"