Bit Torrent Standards are Falling in 2017

[rigmar_radio]

Torrent clients have default settings. Usually the best thing to do is to just let them untouched. The default max number of download slots is usually around 5, so no one is really downloading "dozens of torrents" simultaneously, unless you are playing with those default settings.

The only thing that deserves mention, imo, is to limit the upload speed of the torrent client (by a third or so), if you think the download speed is not getting maximized, and you think it should because of the health of the swarm. Anyway this is only relevant in asymmetric (DSL) connections, in symmetric fiber connections you just forget about everything.

OK let's just take this one and thrash it out.   Sure the default number of download slots is 5 and the MINIMUM is 2.   I will try give you the benifit here.  Our LEECH and BAD TORRENT USER has had the intelligence (GREED acually) to change the default setting to just the minimum THAT IS TWO UPLOAD SLOTS PER SEEDING OR DOWNLOADING ACTIVE TORRENT!

The total tosser is running 200 active torrents... HELLO that is 400 upload slots and his/her upload speed per torrent is TOTAL UPLOAD BANDWIDTH DIVIDED BY 400.

That is what I am seeing again and again and you are NOT HELPING getting the message across that running MORE THAN ONE SEED and ONE DOWNLOAD at a time is not cool.   Duh.  Homer Simpson springs to mind

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I CHALLENGE YOU OR ANYONE to upload a large torrent (at least 4 GB or more) and send me the link here and I will use advanced technology to show you just HOW BAD torrent download speeds have sunk in 10 years or so...  The Bit torrent standards I am seeing in 2017 are shocking and someone SOMEWHERE should be doing something to educate the masses and not telling me I am wrong.  HELLO been seeding since late 2003..  Good Guy here got a 324 GB Karaoke collection seeing since March 2017 with over 220 peers reaching 100%.   Have you considered I just may be correct in my dismal assement of technical standards in Bit Torrent dropping like a stone and no one giving a DAMN.

It is time to work TOGETHER to raise bit torent download speeds to something better than they are.   No wonder people are migrating to streaming (Oh and standards there are pathetic as well by the way) as average users just expect some GOOD GUY to compensate with there hard earned cash to provide them with a data stream that they can not handle as they are 'Technically Challenged'  Duh

I can upload at over 700 Megabit per second and it is SO frustrating when peers download from me at DIAL UP DOWNLOAD speeds of less than 1 megabit per second daily.

[Moe]

You aren't wrong that the vast majority of users have no idea how it works, and many of them try to run too many torrents at the same time because they are impatient.

The advent of bittorrent "streaming" hasn't helped any.

But you are wrong in thinking slow downloads hurt anything. It doesn't matter if it takes 2 hours or 2 years to complete. If they are seeding at the same time and ultimately seed back as much as they download the net effect is 0.

[Sid]

OK let's just take this one and thrash it out.   Sure the default number of download slots is 5 and the MINIMUM is 2.   I will try give you the benifit here.  Our LEECH and BAD TORRENT USER has had the intelligence (GREED acually) to change the default setting to just the minimum THAT IS TWO UPLOAD SLOTS PER SEEDING OR DOWNLOADING ACTIVE TORRENT!

The total tosser is running 200 active torrents... HELLO that is 400 upload slots and his/her upload speed per torrent is TOTAL UPLOAD BANDWIDTH DIVIDED BY 400.

Firstly, you (who claim expertise) are confusing upload slots with active torrents. Those are two completely different things. Torrent clients limit active torrents as well as upload slots. By default a torrent client will typically allow less than 10 torrents to be active at any one time.

[Not to mention that where bandwidth is limited, less upload slots allows more bandwidth to be allocated to each torrent. So in the imaginary world inside your head, the thing you are railing AGAINST--lowering upload slots--would actually be a good thing as it would raise speeds.]

Secondly, most people do not change default settings. You cannot have your cake and eat it too: your claim that most people these days don't know what they're doing, and also that most of them crack open their torrent clients and make very specific adjustments to at least two of the values is internally inconsistent.

Thirdly, very very very very few people attempt to download 200 different things at the same time. Perhaps you mean people who download and then choose to seed torrents indefinitely. Again, you are internally inconsistent: you rail against Hit and Runners, and now you're railing against people who don't Hit and Run.

Anyway. Lets consider them. They ARE uploading. Whether they are uploading lots to one torrent or a little to lots of torrents, none of the bytes are being "wasted". Sure, I understand that you are the center of your universe, and you would prefer that everyone seed your torrents and only your torrents but that is...nonsense.

That is what I am seeing again and again and you are NOT HELPING getting the message across that running MORE THAN ONE SEED and ONE DOWNLOAD at a time is not cool.

Of course we're not helping get that bullshit out. This forum exists to fight ignorance not to spread misinformation.

Have you considered I just may be correct in my dismal assement of technical standards in Bit Torrent dropping like a stone and no one giving a DAMN.

Yes.

We have considered what you have said and NOT ONE person has EVER concluded that you have ANY valid points.

Share, or don't share. That's up to you. And what others do is up to them. And, incidentally, what others do is not harming anyone.

[connor17]

I'm a good boy, so I don't change anything.

[rigmar_radio]

OK I agree that most bit torrent clients will limit the number of Active torrents and unless you change that, the effects I claim may not happen, but I do see a lot of peers who indeed stop downloading from me for long periods at a time, presumably because of the fact they are running too many torrents at the same time.   I think the default settings in Micro Torrent, the Worlds most popular by the way are far too generous and YES I agree that actually reducing the number of upload slots in each torrent is a good thing for those who run more than one or two active torrents at the same time.

BETTER STILL is for peers to stop being greedy and just run one download and one seeding torrent at any time so they can actually upload to the swarm as they download.

But here is what I see in VUZE in the advanced view, with the average download speeds and estimated time taken to download.   At 1.25 MB/s or 10 mbps, a perfectly achivable download speed, it should take about 49 hours or so to download 328GB of data.   Few peers manage that.  Less than 30% in fact manage that speed in 2017 which is pretty damming.   YES it does matter as people or peers who show poor download speeds do so many because they can not upload to the swarm.   If they hold rare bits of the whole, they drag the whole swarm down as they act more as leeches in the grand scheme of things.   LOOK at the screen shots of this very large download and see for yourself.

AND download speeds matter for the poor original seed, for unless they own a seedbox they are tied up for hours or even days as peers learn how to torrent at the seeds expense.   The original seed has to stop all other projects until the swarm reaches 100% and the peers then start to seed and take over so the original seed can move on.   I have seen on Karaoke albums of just 150 megabytes size peers taking days to finish.   Not good enough and could do better.

[Sid]

I do see a lot of peers who indeed stop downloading from me for long periods at a time, presumably because of the fact they are running too many torrents at the same time.

It could be for a variety of reasons but that's not the point. The point is: that is meant to happen. That is the specific intention behind the protocol: to spread the load. Peers deliberately switch between sources. They do not suck continually from a single source. If you want to stream to people, choose a different protocol.

BETTER STILL is for peers to stop being greedy and just run one download and one seeding torrent at any time so they can actually upload to the swarm as they download.

They are not being greedy. If someone wants to download two different things, they can download one and then the other or they can download them at the same time. Either way, they still download exactly the same amount of data and it takes them more or less the same amount of time.

Imagine you want to eat a hamburger and a hot dog. You can either eat one and then the other, or you can take a bite of one and then a bite of the other and continue alternating. The end result is that the same amount of food is consumed in the same amount of time. Sure, if you alternate bites it takes you twice as long to finish each item but who the fuck cares? Other than you, an uppity McDonald's employee who believes that just because they cook fast food everyone must eat it fast. It's nonsense.

But here is what I see in VUZE in the advanced view, with the average download speeds and estimated time taken to download.   At 1.25 MB/s or 10 mbps, a perfectly achivable download speed, it should take about 49 hours or so to download 328GB of data.  

There is no "should" about it. That's like Ferrari saying that everyone who drives one of their cars should drive at 200mph all of the time. It is nothing to do with you what speed people download at. They may not have high speed connections and even if they do they may not want to devote them entirely to you. That is absolutely perfectly reasonable. You are not fucking God. Downloaders do not owe you anything, let alone everything they have. Get over yourself for fucks sake.

[Agricola]

I have only thing to add, i cant believe you lot spent the time to type that stuff to him when the "expert" is clearly correct (in his own small ill informed world), you have far more patience than me, probably why i'm not in the diplomatic corps

[connor17]

BETTER STILL is for peers to stop being greedy and just run one download and one seeding torrent at any time so they can actually upload to the swarm as they download.

So you're saying that the optimal setting is just one download and one upload active torrents. You could just say that and avoid all the nonsense.
Anyway, default settings are the optimal ones according to the programmers who wrote the code. They are quite different.

[lol4ever]

strange thread..
the TS complains that 35% of the peers hit and run. I think that's quite positive. Means that 65% don't.
Also, it's normal to dl more than one torrent at a time.
It's kind of funny that someone who seems to have trouble understanding torrenting complains about it.
This thread should be closed. ^^