Updating Jokes for Modern Sensibilities

[RealPaigeWWE]

as a proud fucker of pigs (I'm secretly a frog), I'm hurt and offended that anyone would bring my people into this clusterfuck.

[Miss Martian]

To comment on these particular remarks, one thing people seem to be forgetting about or entirely overlooking is that we've known they've been revising and removing jokes for years now. It's come up on this very forum before a couple of years ago, when it had already been going on for some time.

When Mike, Kevin, and Bill heard feedback from some viewers that some of their early gay/trans jokes were cringey, they agreed and removed them without saying anything. After quite a while, it came up publicly that they'd been editing themselves for some time whenever they came across something they thought hadn't aged well or they wished they hadn't written in the first place. It was never just Bill making these decisions; he's just the most vocal and publicly-facing member of the group. It just came up again because Bill publicly responded to someone complaining about a joke (a joke I believe had already been removed previously, but it seems like they were probably watching one of the pirated pre-synched movies we all share here that featured the original release mp3 audio and, hence, doesn't change with the times) and encouraged people to tell them if they'd missed something egregious.

None of this is news or a new trend or anything outside the norm of what's been going on with Rifftrax for years now. The clutching-of-pearls accompanying their choice to self-edit seems disingenuous having already known about these things for some time and seems to be more of an excuse to try to saddle the decision with political implications and social pressure instead of it being their own personal decision as a group and a company to not make lazy jokes that demean many of their own consumers. Just because most people will roll their eyes and ignore the jokes doesn't mean they have to keep them forever.

I couldn't have said it better. THANK YOU.

[MalakJoe]

we've known they've been revising and removing jokes for years now. 

Not that it matters, but I didn't know. *shrug*

"When Mike, Kevin, and Bill heard feedback from some viewers that some of their early gay/trans jokes were cringey, they agreed and removed them without saying anything. "

Is there a standard form we can fill out to have the jokes we think are cringy removed?

[Miss Martian]

I think it's called a "letter" or an "email". I mean, you could try faxing them, or sending a telegram, but I'm not sure it would get through.

[SuspiriaTrumpsItFollowsCrap]

"When Mike, Kevin, and Bill heard feedback from some viewers that some of their early gay/trans jokes were cringey, they agreed and removed them without saying anything. "

Is there a standard form we can fill out to have the jokes we think are cringy removed?



Would you really want one, considering how much The Slate or WeGotThisCovered might use it?  Meanwhile...

After a quick search, it appears that the person whom tweeted at Bill is Kristin Chirico, a buzzfeed "journalist".  Less than 10% of her articles (according to her buzzfeed page) deal with scripted-comedy, or narrative fiction of any sort. They basically only cover fluff-stuff. Her tweet to Bill is the equivalent of Paris Hilton tweeting acting-advice, via a remonstration, to Tilda Swinton. This adds further context, and nuance to this thread.  "Food-for-thought". 

Meanwhile, there were even several T-jokes about “not passing” in an MST3K ep which I glowered at.  Even though the ep, after “mentally deleting” those spare jokes, is one I greatly enjoy, riffing a classically-terrible monster-flick.  This offers a thought-puzzle to the two ppl on this thread whom have self-identified as “T” ~

Scenario: A professional comedian/riffer makes fun of a character via a T-joke because that character is a very mannish woman (or are a trans-person whom the comedian considers to be “not passing”). The joke is based on the looks/physicality of the character alone.  In another scene, there is a character whom could be trans, or has been established as trans, but is being unacceptably sexually-aggressive in their carnal approaches to another character.  A professional comedian/riffer makes fun of that inappropriately-sexual-aggressor behaviour, but does *not* make fun of the character’s current gender, versus what was on their birth certificate. 

Question: Are both jokes valid?  Should one joke be removed, and the other remain?  Should both jokes remain?

[SevenMindsets]

It is lame to go back and change jokes. Rifftrax has been around long enough in an ever-accelerating zeitgeist that some jokes are "of their time". So what, who cares. That's comedy & time interacting the way they always do. We hit peak woke some time ago anyway; you can call things gay and retarded again in polite conversation, try it today.

[Miss Martian]

With all due respect, and politely a possible...

1) I'm not the writer of either of these jokes, so it's not up to me.

2) Do you know the difference betwen punching up and punching down? George Carlin did. If still confused, you may be interested in reading up on "INTERSECTIONALITY". (I'm serious - look this up on google and try to begin wrapping your head around this very important concept,. Understanding intersectionality is integral to having this discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8yV8xUorQ8

My honest answer is - if someone is acting like a peice of shit, and you are calling out their BEHAVIOR as opposed to their indentity or physical appearance, then of course they deserve the jab. No one's actions are protected whether they are white or gay or trans or black or ace or.... ad infinitum. If Kylie Jenner is a peice of shit human, I don't care shit about whether she's trans or not, I'll make fun of her abhorent behavior. I can do that without misgendering her or beng respectful to trans people. When the previous american president was in office - many assholes looked at his bad behaviour as a blanket excuse to make fun of everything about him, including his physical attributes. That ain't cool. If you do that, then there isn't much difference between you and what you're makeing the ire of your ridicule (other than the power you weild and the size of your platform. If you do that it makes you a hypcrit (and believe me people on both sides love pointing out each other hypocrisy, as if it someohow makes them better). And really of you can't find something to make fun of that isnt a physical atribute, etc - then you are an idiot, and a lazy comedian. People in power make themselves giant easy target by acting like assholes and dipshits. Target the behaviour, not the person.

I hope this helps. Thank you for listening.

[sneakysnake]

Gay and Trans people have to be shielded from any and all criticism in both foresight and the rearview. LITERALLY all minorities are incapable of showcasing their EQ and require allies to pick up the slack. It's disgusting and any/all jokes about the, quote 'lesser than', have no place in "comedy".

[SuspiriaTrumpsItFollowsCrap]

<snip>smod

Yes, I understand the difference between punching up and punching down, since wonderful Sapphic comedians such as Urzila Carlson and Demi Lardner not only understand that, but exemplify that.  Then again, neither of those icons of Queer Comedy are suffering from banal narcissistic symptoms of conditions listed in any tomes of the DSM.  As found to be the "metric" of tikky-tokky or tweety-land.

As for "I hope this helps. Thank you for listening", the wording of that sentence seems to be begging for applause, versus trying to make a point which might improve peoples' mindsets toward any member of the various GLBTQIA demographics.  "Snarkism" is personally rewarding, but it holds no greater value than a Kardashian "selfie".

Merry Christmas. [edit]: or, if you do not enjoy Christmas, anything else.  Without sarcasm or the useless practice of snarkism, I sincerely hope that the next following days (including today) are emotionally-rewarding to you and enriching to your soul.  Just as I hope that you and I might, on some occasion, share appreciation of Mary Jo & Bridget's comedy exploits.

---

<snip>smod

stormium edited Dec 25, 2021 00:48 am this post because: the topic is "Updating Jokes for Modern Sensibilities" not semantics or off topic posting.

[Miss Martian]

<snip>smod

Yes, I understand the difference between punching up and punching down, since wonderful Sapphic comedians such as Urzila Carlson and Demi Lardner not only understand that, but exemplify that.  Then again, neither of those icons of Queer Comedy are suffering from banal narcissistic symptoms of conditions listed in any tomes of the DSM.  As found to be the "metric" of tikky-tokky or tweety-land.

As for "I hope this helps. Thank you for listening", the wording of that sentence seems to be begging for applause, versus trying to make a point which might improve peoples' mindsets toward any member of the various GLBTQIA demographics.  "Snarkism" is personally rewarding, but it holds no greater value than a Kardashian "selfie".

Merry Christmas. [edit]: or, if you do not enjoy Christmas, anything else.  Without sarcasm or the useless practice of snarkism, I sincerely hope that the next following days (including today) are emotionally-rewarding to you and enriching to your soul.  Just as I hope that you and I might, on some occasion, share appreciation of Mary Jo & Bridget's comedy exploits.

This is the problem with text versus voice. you couldnt hear my intonation. I was honestly trying to be anything but snarky or sarcastic. It's not my method. I honestly really dislike sarcasm because I feel it undermines comunication and understanding. I beg you to please reread my response - and dont assume my tone is one of sarcasm. I was trying to be light-hearted in my approach to the subject matter - but definitely meant no disrespect. I say this all with honest sincerity.

I was being silly because i figured you already knew the answer to the question you were asking. Which you verified in your response that you did. So i was trying to be playfully fun in my response to you in the first part. And informative in the 2nd part for the benefit of anyone else who might also be reading. You have my apologies if this was misconstrued in anyway as snark or sarcasm. I honestly detest that snide elitist crap, and prefer to remain humbly honest to the best of my abiities. TY Cheers. 

MERRY HOLIDAYS!!!!