Rifftrax of movies from MST3K and why they do it

[impnoid]

Pure and simple,
They already own the rights.
No more negotiation, time limits, they can release it on VOD or do it live. It's a done deal, the copyright has been settled, and now they can just riff and write jokes. No more business hassle.

Personally, after years of watching the MST3K version, I like the fresh take. I can see the maturation of the comedic genius of our benefactors. Sometimes it gets stale, but who hasn't watched old MST3K and made their own "Golden Corral's new slogan!" joke?

[evilmojo]

Rifftrax and Shout Factory (owners of MST3K since 2015) are different companies. And neither own the rights to a film they riff. If the film isn't public domain, they license the rights (for the one time use).

I think the crossover has more to do with what made the films attractive in the first place: the cheapness of the film licenses (or freeness if in the PD, like Manos), and whatever je ne sais quoi the film has that made them good riff targets.

[impnoid]

Well said. I was incorrect to state they "Owned" the rights

[BadFilms]

You're slightly right in the sense that, since it was something Shout Factory was able to acquire rights to for physical and digital release of MST3K episodes, you know the rightsholder(s) for the movie is game to negotiate with Rifftrax as well. You already know what uses they're willing to license for and it's just a matter of contract and price.

For MST3K, you had a situation where they were using films that were being sent out specifically to be syndicated on television for very, very cheap at Comedy Central. Then, at Sci-Fi Channel, they had access to the whole channel library of licensed films. Both of those methods eventually ended up in a few dead ends that will never be filled on DVD or digital again, as you had movies - like the Godzilla films - that had cheap American-licensed, edited, and dubbed versions shopped around to syndication for several years that, in the modern era, have returned to the Japanese rightsholders, who take both the movies and the treatment of their movies very seriously. So that leads to films that were easily available for a low-budget show in the 80s and 90s to now be inaccessibly expensive or completely refused licensing to re-release those episodes. So every MST3K episode that could be negotiated and released has been. The remaining few episodes will probably never see official release.

Rifftrax doesn't have that rights quagmire. What they do have is a very small company that probably isn't working with crazy margins on their product. They pay their employees, they run their own infrastructure, they license, produce, sell, and deliver their digital product - all out of one surprisingly small company that seems to have separated from Legends Films years ago. Legends Films gave them an early boost by allowing use of some content (like their colorized public domain films) and helping get the venture off the ground. I have no idea of the specifics, but the "copyright Legend Films" messages disappeared from the end of shorts and VODs years ago and the fact that Mike-only riffs and three-riffer versions of the Legend public domain films have started to disappear from sale leads me to believe that they separated as companies or were bought out to make it an independent venture and their license on continued use of the Legend Films products has started to finally expire. That may seem like a total aside, but I'm sure - early on - Legend was a big help in acquiring product and getting them into the business of licensing films instead of just providing mp3 commentary tracks and riffing on public domain educational films. Now they undoubtedly have a small team that handles the acquisition and legal issues of licensing films, but they undoubtedly have to search out very cheap product that they can afford to license and still be able to make money on at their normal prices. But, aside from being cheap, the film has to be usable - not so incompetent as to be unwatchable, not so boring as to make riffing a chore (a reason that more and more of their riffs are seeing a bit of editing to get dead-weight scenes out of the movies to maximize the pace). There's only so much material out there that fits into the window of being cheap enough but not too bad to riff.

Their big moves in licensing tend to happen with the live shows because of a few factors. First, after years of working with Legend colorized films and shorts before moving into other cheap licenses and then bigger movies, they got a pretty good idea of how many people will be coming to each show, historically, and can better budget exactly how much money they can spend to acquire a license to a bigger film. If you know how many people are coming and roughly how much they're paying at the various theaters throughout the country, you can better work out your possible overhead, how much you have to spend, negotiate better deals with Fathom, and try to get better, more enticing product as the years go by. Second, they have the Kickstarter, which allows them to get some liquid capital to work with before production starts to pay the theater, build the sets, pay licenses, pay airfare, pay salaries, and other sundry items without having to totally go out of pocket. As Kevin pointed out in regard to this year's Kickstarter, the goal they set isn't the total out-of-pocket cost for their production, so any amount over is going to go into bettering the production quality of the upcoming shows and, undoubtedly, not having to take everything out of Rifftrax as a company just to afford to continue doing the live shows. By basically pre-selling VODs for the shows they're licensing up front and giving other digital content at a reasonable cost, they're getting the money they need to continue functioning without gambling every penny they've got on the shows or having to take out short-term business loans every year, which obviously also would cut into their profits with interest payments.

That was a lot of rambling shit that's probably only interesting to me, but there it is.

[Coldyron]

I don't get people that complain about RiffTrax re-doing an MST3K flick. I think they've only done it for the live events, right? A known entity will sell more tickets, plus it's cool to see the upgraded video and uncut movie, plus NEW RIFFS. If you don't like it, you'll have to settle for the, oh, forty or fifty other releases from RiffTrax every year.

[impnoid]

BadFilms,
Amazing understanding and breakdown of the business/legal complexities. Brilliant. Thank you for taking the time.

[JetJaguar73]

That was a lot of rambling shit that's probably only interesting to me, but there it is.

There's a few of us who are interested, Badfilms.

Thanks, t'was a good, informed read. I appreciate the time spent laying out how this business works for the folks who may not realize how truly complex the issue of licensing (for riffing) is, especially for films going back to the MST3K era.

[Meat Trademark]

Right on, BadFilms.

[CountMeowt]

I've always wanted to know how much they really make, how are rights obtained, etc. One website claims the company's revenue is estimated at $1,8M yearly, but I wonder if that's exactly the case. I'm no CPA., FCPA., CGMA, CFO. nor a Qualified Actuary but I really wanted to know the details as a business study.

It must be really weird and challenging to basically be the only* "riffing" company there is. For the little knowledge I have, they seem to get most things right.

*is there anything around like it ? 

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One thing I wonder is what other MST3K episodes they're gonna riff next ? I love every episode of the 8th season, but I think they already re-riffed all the famous ones from it ? I don't think they would ever want to revisit 'The Incredibly Strange Creatures Who Stopped Living and Became Mixed-Up Zombies' (although I wouldn't mind it, heh). Maybe Parts : The Clonus Horror ? It's got Peter Graves in it .
I really liked the live version of Manos, but, as Alan( ) said, Time Chasers and Space Mutiny were incredibly underwhelming.

I was thinking that 'Missile X: The Neutron Bomb Incident' could have been one Great live show. Imagine that 'on the streets of Tehran' song live, oh man . Unremitting Disco music, 70s Fashion, John Carradine, an Italian-American playing a Russian, Lousy Dubbing, Knowing that the Revolution was happening right then and there, Peter Graves and implied Geriatric Thrusting, what more could one want ?

[hazzychan]

Then, at Sci-Fi Channel, they had access to the whole channel library of licensed films.

How did I never think of that?! Wow. And it helps to explain the change in tone of the movies they'd feature. I always felt it wasn't just the different cast that made the show feel different in the last few seasons, but also the movies, and now I understand why. Thanks for that.