How to stop Donald Trump

[jboniva]

The man -- and I use that term very loosely indeed -- is a fraud and a menace.   Any and all suggestions welcome."

Let me guess - you're another Progressive, Socialist, Left wing radical. If you love it so much, go live in Venezuela or Cuba to name a couple places. See how much you'll like it then.

even you, you would like to live in those countries if they didn't have a neighbor like US.

[Headbanger]

Hillary's downfall wasn't the popular vote. It was the lack of voter turnout. It's laughable to see Trump try to carry on as though he has a popular mandate. This isn't going to be the united Republican party that Republicans are hoping for.

[Philidor]

Hillary's downfall wasn't the popular vote. It was the lack of voter turnout. It's laughable to see Trump try to carry on as though he has a popular mandate. This isn't going to be the united Republican party that Republicans are hoping for.

Oh, hell, the GOP must have collectively screamed in terror when they saw Trump coming. He's both a populist and a free agent, something the GOP hasn't had since Teddy Roosevelt. (Reagan was a populist, but definitely not a free agent.) Faced with a leader going against some points in their basic agenda, the seams in the party have started to show with different groups coming to the fore. Those divisions were always there, but the leadership was careful to stick to issues that everybody wanted.

Did you read the article I linked to above? Because while everybody's entitled to their own views, I thought his argument about the voter flip from Obama to Trump made good sense, based on exit polls (admittedly half BS) and numbers (which weren't down in many cases). I'd be curious what you found unconvincing in his numbers. This isn't a criticism. I'm genuinely curious.

Still, it's all sideline analysis that we're doing. About the only people whose viewpoint I think is totally out of sync with reality and I can't reespect is that of the Dem establishment, itself. Because they don't want to let reality in, since it might cost them their leadership positions with a justifiably pissed off membership. They want Evil!Russia! to keep the world at bay, and to blame for Trump--well, with everyone else who didn't believe in their crap. They don't care if they sink their Good Ship Titanic, as long as they have deck chairs on the top while it goes down.

[Headbanger]

http://cookpolitical.com/story/10174

Won the popular vote by almost 3M. This is the reality that the Republican party doesn't want to sink in. They want to pretend that they have some kind of popular manifesto to push conservative agendas, but they really don't, something that their members in senior leadership positions are already well aware of - the simple fragile nature of their power right now. A single misstep could cost them everything they just gained. The political scenario is near equivalent to 2008 with the party powers flipped, and president does not hold the popular vote.

On the other hand, overall voter turnout was up 5.9% which is contrary to my own gibberish. Partial disregard I suck cock.

I am way too hung over right now [and didn't look at it prior] to read that right now in depth and come up with any good response. Simple answer, no I didn't read it yet. At a glance it looks to be more about the electoral college than voter psychology, which is what I would be interested in.

[Philidor]

http://cookpolitical.com/story/10174

Won the popular vote by almost 3M. This is the reality that the Republican party doesn't want to sink in. They want to pretend that they have some kind of popular manifesto to push conservative agendas, but they really don't, something that their members in senior leadership positions are already well aware of - the simple fragile nature of their power right now. A single misstep could cost them everything they just gained. The political scenario is near equivalent to 2008 with the party powers flipped, and president does not hold the popular vote.

On the other hand, overall voter turnout was up 5.9% which is contrary to my own gibberish. Partial disregard I suck cock.

I can't comment on your sexual preferences, but I think you're absolutely correct about the whole faux-mandate. (And there were instances of lower voter turnout. The Third Way Dems assumed TINA--There Is No Alternative-but some Dems who had stuck with Obama finally gave up and chose third parties, while others opted out. Not many, but enough to make a difference with the angry or despairing folks to throw the election to The Donald.) Just speaking for myself, but I'm leery of the whole mandate concept. Parties claim it all the time without any reason at all, and when it can be claimed with some legitimacy--Obama 2008, for example--it's not touched, because he didn't want to push through any of the major changes he campaigned on. (And if any of the people who voted enthusiastically for him had bothered to check his Senate record first, they would have seen that a guy who caucused and voted with the conservative fringe of his party was unlikely to give them more than a grin and a handshake.)

Trump didn't have a mandate. He had a bunch of people who'd gotten sick and tired of the economy tanking and they're going down, while the politicians on the top, like St. Hill, claimed "We're still great!" when Trump stated he would make America great again. They felt shafted. I wonder why, he said sarcastically.

I am way too hung over right now [and didn't look at it prior] to read that right now in depth and come up with any good response. Simple answer, no I didn't read it yet. At a glance it looks to be more about the electoral college than voter psychology, which is what I would be interested in.

It's about voter psychology and thinks that affect it, exclusively. Not the electoral college, at all. Though it does have impressive links with a ton of good, wholesome, crunchy quotes, like this one, which begins with a quote from a magazine article:

Like many Americans in 2016, the voters in Luzerne County [in Pennsylvania] say they want change. They want lower insurance premiums, an end to illegal immigration and better jobs than those that involve a graveyard shift walking miles on the concrete floor of a cavernous warehouse. More than one in five Luzerne County families with kids live in poverty—5 percentage points over the state average, and 9 points higher than in 2000. Per capita income hovers under $25,000, about $4,500 less than the state average, and unemployment tops 6 percent—also over the state and national rates. Since 2009, the number of manufacturing jobs has dropped by 10 percent, and retail jobs have climbed by 8 percent. “People perceive themselves as worse off,” says Thomas Baldino, a political science professor at Wilkes University in Luzerne County.

And then tags it with the author's comment:

As I keep saying about the flyover states: It’s bad out there. “America is already great” is just not a message that resonates.

I'd skip the opening charts, though, if I were you. Nobody with a hangover should look at that--hell, nobody who's sober should, either. But everything beneath them is gravy.

Try tabasco sauce in some vodka. And good luck.

[RonthePirate]

One thing no one can deny: if you love him, it's a strong feeling. If you hate him, it's just as strong of a feeling.

That said, why is everyone fighting him? He's trying to do the best he can here. He's not out to get the blacks, just the illegals and terror-prone groups.
Let him try already. In my eyes, that ain't prejudice. That's common sense. 

Illegals take our money that they make here and give it to another country. Other than paying forced taxes, like sales tax, they do not give back anything they receive.
Yes, we are a nation of immigrants. LEGAL ones. My great-grandparents came from Germany in the late 1800's
And, unlike the illegal immigrants of today, they were PROUD to become Americans. They learned our language, our rules, our ways.
They fit in, or tried to anyway.

Not so with the illegal alien of today. Go to Bell, California. See what they have turned that area into.
A shit pit. (Sorry if language isn't allowed) I lived in the Los Angeles area for about 30 years. I watched nice, middle class areas become nothing but
crap low class areas in that time. 
They do not want our ways. They will not learn our language. Just enough to ask for Budweiser at the Mini-Mart.
They do not pay taxes, which was covered. Why not? because we cannot track them and make them pay.
That's against their civil rights. Awww, too bad. What about our rights as taxpayers? Don't we get a say in our politics?

Yes we do. And that say was we elected The Exterminator, trump. He may have a few things that just aren't right.
But at least he is for our country, not like that commie bitch, Hillary. 
So I say again, give him a chance. Let's try out his bills. Keep the terrorist-prone countries out for awhile.
Keep building that wall, it might really help.
keep rounding up the illegals and shipping them back.
We just might get The United States of America back again.

[Philidor]

Just my view, but I think The Donald's loathed because the Third Way Dem leadership is banging the hate drum on him, both in person and in all the media they own. He can't so much as belch without being raked over the coals. Hell, they're even writing articles expressing horror over the things he's done which his predecessors have, as well--such as letting most of the attorneys in the justice department go (which Obama, Bush II, Clinton, Bush I, and Reagan all did).

Why? In my opinion, it's to keep attention away from the Clinton team's massive bungling of the election. And worse, just how fucking out of touch they are with the constituencies that belonged to the Old Dems, and which this new group likes kicking to the curb when it isn't an election year.

Personally, I don't especially like Trump. Don't hate him, though; don't know him well enough to feel one way or the other about him. I don't like his sexism, but that's about it. Given a 10 to -10, I'd probably rate him a -1, if I'd bothered to do so, which I don't. I'm not in the business of judging the worth of people. (I've an extended family that loves doing that, always ragging over one another and the outside world. So I come by my intense dislike of doing that naturally.) And I can't examine his actions because he hasn't had enough time to show what he can do in the rat's nest that is DC, and because the media offers an extremely distorted view of him. I don't like a lot of his stated philosophy, but so what? Doesn't have anything to do with the guy, himself. And some of his ideas sound like they'd break the DC mold in a good way--if the GOP and the Dems ever allow that to happen.

[Headbanger]

That said, why is everyone fighting him? He's trying to do the best he can here. He's not out to get the blacks, just the illegals and terror-prone groups.
Let him try already. In my eyes, that ain't prejudice. That's common sense.

There's plenty of reasons depending on your views.

For me:
The travel ban -> http://www.factcheck.org/2017/02/terrori...ravel-ban/
tl;dr - the claims of protecting us from terrorism are grossly exaggerated.
War against the EPA -> Yeah, nobody likes putting up with EPA regulations, but these regulations have made a significant positive effect on society; as well, the EPA squashes beefs between states over environmental and pollution issues. Prior to the EPA, there were a lot of state v. state lawsuits over accusations of pollution moving from one state to another.
The border wall nonsense -> Its going to end up costing a lot more than Trump and most people think. It would be a megalithic structure sinking billions of dollars, and absolutely no reason to believe that it would be effective.

Proposed budget cuts to science agencies -> With only a couple exceptions, Trump's proposed federal budget would decrease US research and science spending.

There's more, but these are my major frustrations at the moment, and he's only been in for a quarter.

[workerbee]

Give the man a chance already. As I said, he may be terrible, he may be great, but at least let him do something for christ's sake.

So, how's it been going so far?  You don't hear too much about Trump any more.

[politux]

You don't hear too much DEFENSE of Trump any more because his conduct and that of his Administration has become indefensible to all but the most extreme right wing ideologues like Sean Hannity and half of TPB irc.