If you had an account on forum.suprbay.org with at least one post, you do not need to re-register. Your account is still active and your Suprbay username and password will work.

HEVC/H265 Encoding
#11
Let me see if I have this right.

Raw -> HEVC = 50% original size
Raw-> Other = 80% Original size
Seems to be what Wiki is saying.

But :
Other->HEVC != 50% already encoded size
Appears to be what RYP is saying.

Am I correct?
Reply
#12
Well Wikipedia is not always accurate.  You can only really test it out properly, which is what I did several months ago.  The test conclusion was:

1. No difference to visual quality

2. Pretty much the same size as before minus about 200MB to 300MB at the most

3. The encoding time was rediculous (took literally hours on end)

4. The amount of stress that your CPU was put under during that time, actually wearing out your CPU even the further

5. The amount of energy wasted on processing to generate such a file where there was no logical improvement

You can only really test these things out properly and draw a conclusion but as I said previously there are people who can't accept what you tell them and they will just keep arguing about it all the time, never ending nonsense.  It's not really my fault just the clash that humans will always disagree on a great many things.  There's more important things going on in the world right now other than complaining about video codecs and more serious issues happening especially in places like the USA.

I'm afraid codec issues and arguments are not really a strong focus, not at this time, I say my part and that's it, I end my conversation not going to get into any kind of argument with somebody who is hell bent on repeating themselves 100's of times.
Reply
#13
(Jun 06, 2020, 20:26 pm)RodneyYouPlonker Wrote: Well Wikipedia is not always accurate.  You can only really test it out properly, which is what I did several months ago.  The test conclusion was:

1. No difference to visual quality

2. Pretty much the same size as before minus about 200MB to 300MB at the most

3. The encoding time was rediculous (took literally hours on end)

4. The amount of stress that your CPU was put under during that time, actually wearing out your CPU even the further

5. The amount of energy wasted on processing to generate such a file where there was no logical improvement

You can only really test these things out properly and draw a conclusion but as I said previously there are people who can't accept what you tell them and they will just keep arguing about it all the time, never ending nonsense.  It's not really my fault just the clash that humans will always disagree on a great many things.  There's more important things going on in the world right now other than complaining about video codecs and more serious issues happening especially in places like the USA.

I'm afraid codec issues and arguments are not really a strong focus, not at this time, I say my part and that's it, I end my conversation not going to get into any kind of argument with somebody who is hell bent on repeating themselves 100's of times.

You never specified what settings you used when making your encode, and you didn't show anyone before and after screenshots. You made claims but didn't prove anything, because you provided no proof. Then there's also various settings to the x265 encoder which changes the quality, like encoder preset for one thing, or encoder tuning. I'm curious to hear what preset you used. There are also other settings in the ripping program itself which affects quality. What program are you using to make your rips? It's the first thing I'd like to know, as well as the settings.

You don't wear out your CPU by using it. It's a solid-state circuit. There are no moving parts. What you claimed here is quite dumb. The only way you could wear it out is by running it at around 100°C or something like that. That's not the temperature most people are running their CPU at.
Reply
#14
The typical consumer mobo is not designed to run full throttle for more than 20 minutes or so at a time. Its why there are special boards and cooling systems for gamers. While most chips are designed to shut down at around 160F, my old C2D will easily reach that temp when compiling for extended periods. And encoding is presumably even more CPU intensive.
Its also my understanding that the thermal migration problem is back for newer chips. Higher temps will slowly degrade them. (A temp solution is to lower core voltage).

I have yet to see a normal system that is adequately designed for thermal stresses. And that particularly includes hard drives.
Reply
#15
Fant0men Wrote:You don't wear out your CPU by using it. It's a solid-state circuit. There are no moving parts.

There are electrons moving and particle physics takes friction into account, amongst other things. If temperature wasn't an issue, coolers and air conditioning wouldn't be used.
Reply
#16
(Jun 08, 2020, 05:17 am)dueda Wrote:
Fant0men Wrote:You don't wear out your CPU by using it. It's a solid-state circuit. There are no moving parts.

There are electrons moving and particle physics takes friction into account, amongst other things. If temperature wasn't an issue, coolers and air conditioning wouldn't be used.

Yes, but like I said you typically don't reach the temperatures where the CPU can actually degrade, as it's around 100°C and above. I've encoded movies literally 24/7 for months at a time and my system seems fine. Temperature is okay. I'm using a stock Intel cooler. This isn't rocket science. Although I don't have a discrete GFX card in my box so that probably helps to bring down the temperature a bit.

If you're really so worried about overheating your CPU I think it's best to never watch videos, never play games and never encode videos at all. We should just stop using our CPUs completely, as that seems to be the only way to be safe, if you're to believe the nonsense in this thread.

Worrying that HEVC encoding will fry your CPU is just scaremongering by Plonkey because he's stupid. Don't fall for it.

Look at this screenshot and explain to me why I need to be worried:
[Image: mXmlyIf.png]
Reply
#17
(Jun 08, 2020, 05:17 am)dueda Wrote: There are electrons moving and particle physics takes friction into account, amongst other things. If temperature wasn't an issue, coolers and air conditioning wouldn't be used.

That is right dueda, a CPU can take a bit of punishment for some time but if you were planning on encoding about 1000 movies in a row I think you might end up having a few problems.  Not that people usually encode 1000 movies all in one go.  Definitely heat is the problem and the friction obviously.  All CPU's and motherboards wear out eventually, if you use them on a regular basis, like especially for gaming, then you might get maybe 5 years or perhaps a bit more out of them.  Even with the correct cooling being used, there's still the problems that capacitors encounter.  You will get some use out of a system but only for a limited amount of time.  Computers being as expensive as it is and the amount of money you have to end up putting into it, you do get some time but like everything in the electronic world it's going to wear out eventually and that's just life.  But the difference between using x264 codec and x265 codec there is much greater demand on the processor to do all the work which is why you'll have your machine sat there for hours and hours just to do a simple job which a x264 codec can endure in about quarter of the time just not very practical really.  Generating heat for long periods I would not recommend in most situations.
Reply
#18
(Jun 08, 2020, 10:58 am)RodneyYouPlonker Wrote:
(Jun 08, 2020, 05:17 am)dueda Wrote: There are electrons moving and particle physics takes friction into account, amongst other things. If temperature wasn't an issue, coolers and air conditioning wouldn't be used.

That is right dueda, a CPU can take a bit of punishment for some time but if you were planning on encoding about 1000 movies in a row I think you might end up having a few problems.  Not that people usually encode 1000 movies all in one go.  Definitely heat is the problem and the friction obviously.  All CPU's and motherboards wear out eventually, if you use them on a regular basis, like especially for gaming, then you might get maybe 5 years or perhaps a bit more out of them.  Even with the correct cooling being used, there's still the problems that capacitors encounter.  You will get some use out of a system but only for a limited amount of time.  Computers being as expensive as it is and the amount of money you have to end up putting into it, you do get some time but like everything in the electronic world it's going to wear out eventually and that's just life.  But the difference between using x264 codec and x265 codec there is much greater demand on the processor to do all the work which is why you'll have your machine sat there for hours and hours just to do a simple job which a x264 codec can endure in about quarter of the time just not very practical really.  Generating heat for long periods I would not recommend in most situations.

This discussion is just so fucking dumb. You can see in my screenshot I've been running the current encode for more than a day and my core temp was only around 50°C. If digital circuits really worn out the way you believe then how come you can play a Nintendo Entertainment System today and it still works? Why isn't the processor completely fried yet from all those years of non-stop gaming for hours, and hours and hours? Those devices are 30-40 years old by now. And when they break, guess what? It's never the fucking processor that's the cause. It's some other moving part in the system, or maybe it was fried in a short circuit, electrical spike or something like that. Even those old video game systems generate a little heat. But that's not a problem as long as the temperature doesn't reach ridiculous levels like 100°C or more.
Reply
#19
Most electronic components are not rated over 65C.

While your system appears to be designed well, most are not, and at 100C CPUs will generally start to overheat after a while.

The 'critical' limit is usually set in BIOS, and may not be a realistic value. Its usually the level you want the thermal shutdown to initiate. Some of the newer systems *may* have 100C rated chips, but its far from the norm.

An overclocked and overheated system will work. Until it suddenly doesnt. I expect my systems to last 12-15 years.
Reply
#20
I'm not saying that running a PC with proper maintenance and due care will wear it (even if it will, in millenia, centuries or decades, depending on quality), just that there's thermodynamics in play.
Btw, the most common problems are the power supply, motherboard entry points (capacitors and diodes), voltage regulators, and the motherboard itself (tracks and solderings), wich are not solid state.
Also the cooling will degrade due their rotors being mechanical and the dust build-up, both factors seriously reducing the air flow and thermal transfer capacity. Oh, and there's the thermal paste, too.
Reply


Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  H.265/HEVC/x265 NIK 23 25,552 Jul 23, 2015, 16:23 pm
Last Post: floki



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)