Last Active: Apr 05, 2014
Threads: 2
Posts: 21
Reputation:
0
Mar 29, 2014, 08:24 am
(This post was last modified: Mar 29, 2014, 08:46 am by yossarian83. Edited 8 times in total.)
Hi Connor.
IMO, in a world of 128 gig micro SD cards, storage space is very cheap and readily available now so it's simply a matter of your priorities. It only seems like a waste of space because your looking at it in relative terms e.g. relative to standard PCM wav or mp3. A 5 TB HD could hold roughly 10,000 such songs (probably more than actually exist in this format) but that's not even the point. My point is you can test for yourself and see how easy it is to tell the difference AND that there is, a real, discernible difference from 320, cd, and even 24/96 and higher quality formats like 192 and DDS. If you go to Ponomusic.com and watch the video reviews from artists you'll hear basically the same description I gave above of the differences... more natural sense of space and realism, wider stereo field, etc. If you take the time to listen to and compare these files, you can hear it, too.
Last Active: Mar 30, 2022
Threads: 46
Posts: 910
Reputation:
16
Hi.
Beck appears in that video. His last album is sold in HDtracks as high resolution, but it's an oversampling of red book (and two tracks of mp3), people love it.
Neil Young said that PONO is mainstream, at 25$ each album, I doubt it. When amazon starts selling flacs, game over.
Last Active: Apr 05, 2014
Threads: 2
Posts: 21
Reputation:
0
Mar 29, 2014, 09:17 am
(This post was last modified: Mar 29, 2014, 09:27 am by yossarian83. Edited 4 times in total.)
What does it matter that people love Beck's album?
I personally have been waiting for an affordable, portable high quality music player with a dedicated line out for years and Neil has finally put it together so I'm grateful for that. My iPod classic sounds like $#!& with headphones, used as an aux in, and pretty much every other way you can use it. It's now my newest portable HD. I'm also glad he's bringing the general public's attention to the fact that there is an audible difference and it's important that we preserve what music we have using formats with higher quality than CD. Honestly, he seems kind of crazy and obsessive but sometimes that's a good thing.
I don't care how mainstream it becomes, hell I don't even care if it's sustainable because it's still the best option I currently have for an HD player. I'll get HD files from elsewhere. What will people listen to their Amazon.com FLAC's on? 1500.00 A&K players?
What does any of this have to do with my initial point again?
Last Active: Mar 30, 2022
Threads: 46
Posts: 910
Reputation:
16
Hi.
The portable player is great. The line out is something that shows that they know what they are doing. For 200$ I would buy it. Great DAC too.
My point is that the master is the real deal, not the bit depth, and as you can read in the article:
“Will there be a Pono certification or guarantee or Mastered for Pono type thing to designate tracks that are of pono quality?”, asked Connaker.
Young replied, “No. Pono is Pono. You make what you make. When we say it’s Pono that means we are bringing you the closest thing to the master, if it’s not the master, if it’s not the native resolution it’s the closet thing to it that was mastered.”
Do we take it then that PonoMusic will more similar to (than different from) the Chesky brothers’ existing HDTracks store? On this Young says, “I don’t know what the HDtracks store is like. The Pono Store will be the Pono Store. We sell stuff that is Pono. It’s the best that’s available. Period.” That doesn’t exactly clarify things does it?
Last Active: Apr 05, 2014
Threads: 2
Posts: 21
Reputation:
0
Mar 29, 2014, 10:30 am
(This post was last modified: Mar 29, 2014, 10:31 am by yossarian83. Edited 1 time in total.)
(Mar 29, 2014, 10:06 am)connor17 Wrote: Hi.
The portable player is great. The line out is something that shows that they know what they are doing. For 200$ I would buy it. Great DAC too.
My point is that the master is the real deal, not the bit depth, and as you can read in the article:
“Will there be a Pono certification or guarantee or Mastered for Pono type thing to designate tracks that are of pono quality?”, asked Connaker.
Young replied, “No. Pono is Pono. You make what you make. When we say it’s Pono that means we are bringing you the closest thing to the master, if it’s not the master, if it’s not the native resolution it’s the closet thing to it that was mastered.”
Do we take it then that PonoMusic will more similar to (than different from) the Chesky brothers’ existing HDTracks store? On this Young says, “I don’t know what the HDtracks store is like. The Pono Store will be the Pono Store. We sell stuff that is Pono. It’s the best that’s available. Period.” That doesn’t exactly clarify things does it?
What Neil seems to be saying is that things will not be remastered for PONO, simply existing masters will be released in higher quality formats. That doesn't matter to me at all. The only utility of the PONO store will be access to a greater number of high quality recordings, regardless of any PONO certification. The "certification" is legitimate 24/192 music files as far as enthusiasts, including myself, are concerned.
What do you mean by "the master is the real deal, not the bit depth"?
The samples I posted were comparisons of the same master at different bit rates and, if I'm interpreting your comment correctly, it seems that you'd rather repeat yourself than take the time to make an actual comparison. Maybe you personally hear no difference, that's fine. However, I'm confident that many will.
As Neil has said about PONO, if you don't hear a difference and you get plenty of enjoyment from your current formats, maybe your just lucky (paraphrase).
I've seen this exact test completely change the position of devoted, long term skeptics.
Last Active: Mar 30, 2022
Threads: 46
Posts: 910
Reputation:
16
If PONO is a success, it will be very good for everyone. Studio masters instead of compressed releases, better hardware support, etc. NY said that his flacs won't use watermarks, good too. As for the albums price tag, well, here use to be 0.00$ 
I'm not the enemy, if I talk is because I care. 
Last Active: May 09, 2014
Threads: 11
Posts: 260
Reputation:
11
(Mar 29, 2014, 11:55 am)connor17 Wrote: I'm not the enemy, if I talk is because I care.
I'm right there with you my friend. The long decay of a cymbal crash, the sound that reverberates out of a cello's body.... when music sounds so good you don't want to turn it off. No listener fatigue from crappy sounding masters or releases that were mixed to be played from plastic car speakers. That good sound doesn't come from how you record it but the source. I understand that most people don't care but....
It bothers me that people get sucked into the marketing. "Well lookee here, all these friends of Neil Young also agree with him.... must be true." Don't get me wrong, I applaud Neil for wanting to bring better quality music to the public. As I've said before, his releases SHOULD sound better. They'll be sourced from the original masters. I'm sure Dave Grohl has listened to Aretha Franklin before but who knows what master..... of course he'll be blown away with the original master carefully recorded. My point is that he'd be blown away with a 16/44 version as well.
(Mar 29, 2014, 07:48 am)connor17 Wrote: Those blue coast records are overkill.
.... and I just love how they think a disadvatage of FLAC is, "DOES NOT PLAY ON ITUNES" Look into my eyes, says Steve Jobs.... drink the Kool Aid and chant with me.... "must have Apple, must have Apple" 
(Mar 29, 2014, 09:17 am)yossarian83 Wrote: What does it matter that people love Beck's album?
It matters when they think they're listening to something sold to them at HD Tracks claiming to sound better but it's just a regurgitation of what was already released but recorded at 24/96. Just like it matters that someone thinks a 24/96 recording of "Dark Side Of the Moon" sounds better then the exact same master at 16/44. But, whatever, drink the Kool-Aid and waste as much HD space as you want.....like gcjm said,
(Jan 08, 2014, 10:33 am)gcjm Wrote: What a wonderful world, full of choice.
Last Active: Apr 05, 2014
Threads: 2
Posts: 21
Reputation:
0
Like I said, do the comparison. There's an obvious difference but you'll never know until you listen. Deciding Neil and his friends are drinking the kool aid without seeing for yourself is just ignorant. Have you ever seen a distribution from one of the studies that claims people can't hear a difference? If not then YOU may be drinking the kool aid. Neil and all the people he's demonstrating PONO to are doing the exact same thing as blue coast records has setup. Side by side listening to different resolutions of the same master.
Connor, I certainly didn't mean to suggest you don't care but if you ask a question (why do people bother?) and I answer it by saying "have a listen and you'll see" Then you ignore my answer and reassert your already firmly stated opinion, it kinda seems like you don't care.
Last Active: May 09, 2014
Threads: 11
Posts: 260
Reputation:
11
Mar 29, 2014, 14:59 pm
(This post was last modified: Mar 29, 2014, 15:01 pm by tuffgong. Edited 1 time in total.)
(Mar 29, 2014, 14:27 pm)yossarian83 Wrote: Like I said, do the comparison. There's an obvious difference but you'll never know until you listen. Deciding Neil and his friends are drinking the kool aid without seeing for yourself is just ignorant. Have you ever seen a distribution from one of the studies that claims people can't hear a difference? If not then YOU may be drinking the kool aid. Neil and all the people he's demonstrating PONO to are doing the exact same thing as blue coast records has setup. Side by side listening to different resolutions of the same master.
Connor, I certainly didn't mean to suggest you don't care but if you ask a question (why do people bother?) and I answer it by saying "have a listen and you'll see" Then you ignore my answer and reassert your already firmly stated opinion, it kinda seems like you don't care.
If you really read my posts you'd understand that I'm no engineer interested in sines waves ran through testing equipment. I'm a musician and a huge music lover. All I have done is listen.... and better ears than mine can't hear a difference. The internet is flooded with people saying the same thing with documentation backing it up, also in my posts. But if you can hear a difference, congratulations. Enjoy and stay tuned to TPB to download it all for free!
Read carefully though, I never once mentioned that Neil Young has drank the Kool Aid, only that they're listening to an entirely different master. He didn't create a new 16/44 version of the studio master to listen to, just 24/96.
Last Active: Apr 05, 2014
Threads: 2
Posts: 21
Reputation:
0
(Mar 29, 2014, 14:59 pm)tuffgong Wrote: (Mar 29, 2014, 14:27 pm)yossarian83 Wrote: Like I said, do the comparison. There's an obvious difference but you'll never know until you listen. Deciding Neil and his friends are drinking the kool aid without seeing for yourself is just ignorant. Have you ever seen a distribution from one of the studies that claims people can't hear a difference? If not then YOU may be drinking the kool aid. Neil and all the people he's demonstrating PONO to are doing the exact same thing as blue coast records has setup. Side by side listening to different resolutions of the same master.
Connor, I certainly didn't mean to suggest you don't care but if you ask a question (why do people bother?) and I answer it by saying "have a listen and you'll see" Then you ignore my answer and reassert your already firmly stated opinion, it kinda seems like you don't care.
If you really read my posts you'd understand that I'm no engineer interested in sines waves ran through testing equipment. I'm a musician and a huge music lover. All I have done is listen.... and better ears than mine can't hear a difference. The internet is flooded with people saying the same thing with documentation backing it up, also in my posts. But if you can hear a difference, congratulations. Enjoy and stay tuned to TPB to download it all for free!
Read carefully though, I never once mentioned that Neil Young has drank the Kool Aid, only that they're listening to an entirely different master. He didn't create a new 16/44 version of the studio master to listen to, just 24/96.
How many comparisons have you done for yourself? Have you had someone randomly select files so you can't see then try to determine which was hi-res? Were you using equipment that supported it? What better ears than yours can't tell a difference? I've seen just as many people run audio comparison softs and get positive hits as no difference, which is why i question the validity of some of the studies.
|
