Need H264 Help

[teikyo37]

My computer and my tv play H264 perfectly. They also play xvid, mpeg, avi, etc, etc. So I took a file that was a bluray rip, converted it to H264 using Ultra MP4 Video Converter. It played smoothly on my pc, but on my tv the picture was great, so was the audio, but it kept randomly freezing.

Could this be because I set the bit rates too high? The program has a default for H264 of normal for video and good for audio. I set the video to superb and the audio to best. It took about 3 hours to convert. Using DIVX Converter I was able to take a different file and convert it to 1080P Divx and it played just fine. I'm just trying to experiment here and see how I can get the best quality in these formats.

My current project is converting the original brrip to mkv and then from mkv to h264 using Ultra MKV converter. It does seem like an extra step, but I'm just not sure what's the best format.

Does anyone know how DIVX 1080P compares to H264 MP4 and to Mpeg4 MP4? I originally tried Badaboom, but while it's a lot quicker the end result was a crappy looking file that probably would have been perfect on a cell phone (set that program to maximum settings), but not on a 42" LCD, let alone my 22" monitor.

[T-Fish]

MPEG-4 (ISO 14496) is a broad Open Standard developed by the Moving Picture Experts Group (MPEG), a working group of the International Organization for Standardization (ISO) which also did the well known MPEG-1 (MP3, VCD) and MPEG-2 (DVD, SVCD) Standards, standardizing all sorts of audio/video compression formats and much more
By its nature the MPEG-4 Standard doesnt aim at standardizing one potential product (eg something comparable to DVD) but covers a broad range of Sub-Standards, which Product Providers can choose from to follow, according to what they need for their product.

one of them is ISO 14496-10 (Video), Advanced Video Coding (AVC), also known as H.264.

The AVC/H.264 standard defines four different Profiles: Baseline, Main, Extended and High Profile (which themselves are subdivided into Levels):

- Baseline Profile offers I/P-Frames, supports progressive and CAVLC only
- Extended Profile offers I/P/B/SP/SI-Frames, supports progressive and CAVLC only
- Main Profile offers I/P/B-Frames, supports progressive and interlaced, and offers CAVLC or CABAC
- High Profile (aka FRExt) adds to Main Profile: 8x8 intra prediction, custom quants, lossless video coding, more yuv formats (4:4:4...)

levels:



make sure that you know what profile/level your tv supports

i can only recommend you use proper tools to do the job. here're a few:
http://www.videohelp.com/tools/MeGUI
http://www.videohelp.com/tools/StaxRip
http://www.videohelp.com/tools/HandBrake
http://www.videohelp.com/tools/RipBot264
http://www.videohelp.com/tools/AutoMKV

[teikyo37]

(2nd November 2009 15:57)T-Fish Wrote:  i can only recommend you use proper tools to do the job. here're a few:
http://www.videohelp.com/tools/MeGUI
http://www.videohelp.com/tools/StaxRip
http://www.videohelp.com/tools/HandBrake
http://www.videohelp.com/tools/RipBot264
http://www.videohelp.com/tools/AutoMKV

I'll check those out. Thanks! I did notice that some of the H264 files I downloaded play fine while others do not. I converted a few to 1080P Divx and they play fine, but I've been converting the ones that don't play nice with the tv to Divx5 which look almost the same. It's really just an end-run at not buying the PS3 yet which I assume will play more of these versions of the H264 codecs.

[T-Fish]

(4th November 2009 05:17)teikyo37 Wrote:  I'll check those out. Thanks! I did notice that some of the H264 files I downloaded play fine while others do not. I converted a few to 1080P Divx and they play fine, but I've been converting the ones that don't play nice with the tv to Divx5 which look almost the same. It's really just an end-run at not buying the PS3 yet which I assume will play more of these versions of the H264 codecs.

well, divx is h263 (mpeg4-asp) and not h264 (mpeg4-avc). so you get more
compatibility, but you can make divx that wont run on your tv as well if you
push the boundaries.
h264 is superior to divx and re-encoding the file will also degrade quality, but
quality is subjective after all.

the ps3 may or may not play more files, than your tv (not knowing the
limits of your tv). the ps3 does definitely play less than a WDTV Live player
that costs a fraction of a ps3. basically, unless you want a ps3 to play games, dont buy one.

[teikyo37]

(4th November 2009 07:07)T-Fish Wrote:  basically, unless you want a ps3 to play games, dont buy one.

I thought about getting a Samsung bdp1600 bluray player or maybe one of the newer models since it plays all that and has netflix/pandora, but the reviews are mixed. Cnet says it's a great player, other sites not so much.

I'm a PC gamer. I pretty much hate console games mostly due to the lack of range of motion with those damn controllers. Although I have to admit I got hooked playing Resident Evil 4 on my girlfriend's PS2 a few years ago and spent the better part of two weeks learning it. But the PS3 is rated to be the best bluray player on the market and it has a lot of features like the 120gb hdd, bluetooth, wifi, etc, etc that make it very appealing. Now that PS3 slim is under $300, I think it's a no-brainer.

Here are the full specs of my new tv:


Philips 42PFL6704D

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* Manufacturer: Philips
* Part Number:42pfl6704d/f7b

General

* Product type LCD TV
* Diagonal Size 42 in - Widescreen
* Dimensions & Weight Details Panel without stand - 39.2 in x 3.5 in x 23.7 in x 38.4 lbs , Panel with stand - 39.2 in x 10.2 in x 25.8 in x 44.1 lbs

Display

* Technology TFT active matrix
* Resolution 1920 x 1080
* Display Format 1080p (FullHD)
* Dynamic Contrast Ratio 50000:1
* Brightness (cd/m2) 500 cd/m2
* 120Hz Yes
* Widescreen Modes Auto Wide , Zoom 14:9 , Zoom 16:9 , Super Zoom , WideScreen , Conventional 4:3
* Progressive Scan Progressive scanning (line doubling)
* Viewing Angle 178 degrees
* Viewing Angle (Vertical) 178 degrees
* Pixel Response Time 2 ms
* Comb Filter 3D digital

TV Tuner

* Digital TV Tuner QAM , ATSC
* Analog TV Tuner NTSC
* Secondary Audio Program (SAP) Yes

Video Features

* Video Interface HDMI , S-Video , Component , Composite
* HDTV Ready Yes
* Analog Video Input Signals NTSC
* Input Video Formats 480/60i , 480/60p , 720/60p , 1080/60i , 1080/60p
* Supported Computer Resolutions 1360 x 768 , 1920 x 1080 , 640 x 480 (VGA) , 1024 x 768 (XGA) , 800 x 600 (SVGA) , 1280 x 768 (WXGA) , 1280 x 1024 (SXGA)
* Parental Channel Lock Yes

Audio System

* Speaker(s) 2 x Right/left channel speaker - Built-in - 10 Watt
* Sound Output Mode Stereo
* Built-in Decoders Dolby Digital
* Surround Mode Yes
* Sound Effects Incredible Surround
* Equalizer Yes (5-band)
* Output Power / Total 20 Watt
* Additional Features Auto volume adjustment

Connections

* Connector Type 3 x HDMI ( 19 pin HDMI Type A ) - Rear , 2 x Component video input ( RCA phono x 3 ) - Rear , 4 x Audio line-in ( RCA phono x 2 ) - Rear , 1 x SPDIF output ( RCA phono ) - Rear , 1 x Composite video/audio input ( RCA phono x 3 ) - Rear , 1 x S-Video input ( 4 pin mini-DIN ) - Rear , 1 x HDMI ( 19 pin HDMI Type A ) - Side , 1 x S-Video input ( 4 pin mini-DIN ) - Side , 1 x Composite video/audio input ( RCA phono x 3 ) - Side , 1 x Headphones ( Mini-phone stereo 3.5 mm ) - Side , 1 x USB ( 4 pin USB Type A ) - Side

Network & Internet Multimedia

* Functionality Digital audio playback , Digital photo playback , Digital video playback
* Connectivity Wired
* Connectivity Protocols USB
* Supported Audio Formats MP3
* Supported Video Formats Xvid , DivX5 , H.264 , MPEG-2 , MPEG-4 , DivX3.11
* Supported Pictures Formats JPG

Memory Card Reader

* USB Port Yes

Remote Control

* Remote Control Remote control - Infrared
* Supported Devices TV

Stands & Mounts

* Stand Included Yes
* Stand Design Tabletop
* Stand Features Swivel
* Flat Panel Mount Interface 400 x 400 mm

Power

* Power Device Power supply - Internal
* Power AC 120/230 V
* Power Consumption Stand by / Sleep 0.15 Watt
* Power Consumption Operational 210 Watt

Miscellaneous

* HDCP Compatible Yes

Dimensions & Weight (Shipping)

* Width (Shipping) 47.2 in
* Depth (Shipping) 10.5 in
* Height (Shipping) 26.9 in
* Weight (Shipping) 52.9 lbs

Sustainability

* CNET Power Saver Yes
* CNET Labs: Operational power consumption 136.8 Watt
* CNET Labs: Calibrated power consumption 183.16 Watt
* CNET Labs: Power Save Mode power consumption 91.05 Watt
* CNET Labs: Power consumption Stand by / Sleep 0.25 Watt
* CNET Labs: Estimated Annual Energy Cost 29.66 US Dollars
* EPA Energy Star Compliant Yes
* Greenpeace policy rating (Sept 2009) 5.9

[T-Fish]

(4th November 2009 08:54)teikyo37 Wrote:  I thought about getting a Samsung bdp1600 bluray player or maybe one of the newer models since it plays all that

bluray movies can come in 3 different formats.
vc1
mpeg4/h264
mpeg2 (same as dvd)

it wouldn't play downloaded h264 files, unless you re-author/encode them into AVCHD and burn them onto a dvd5/BD.

(4th November 2009 08:54)teikyo37 Wrote:  Here are the full specs of my new tv:


Philips 42PFL6704D

Network & Internet Multimedia

* Functionality Digital audio playback , Digital photo playback , Digital video playback
* Connectivity Wired
* Connectivity Protocols USB
* Supported Audio Formats MP3
* Supported Video Formats Xvid , DivX5 , H.264 , MPEG-2 , MPEG-4 , DivX3.11

unfortunately, with only basic info like this, all you can do is make test encodes, starting with the lowest profile/level and move up until it stops working

edit:

im sure the ps3 is a nice bluray player (retail discs) since its by sony lol.
the most commonly used container for HD content (torrent wise) is mkv. mkv isnt supported by the ps3, so you'd have to transmux every movie into a mp4 container.
the cheapos at sony, didn't wanna pay M$ license fees for NTFS, so you're limited to 4gb and fat32 (external drives only afaik).

[teikyo37]

(4th November 2009 10:13)T-Fish Wrote:  

(4th November 2009 08:54)teikyo37 Wrote:  I thought about getting a Samsung bdp1600 bluray player or maybe one of the newer models since it plays all that

im sure the ps3 is a nice bluray player (retail discs) since its by sony lol.
the most commonly used container for HD content (torrent wise) is mkv. mkv isnt supported by the ps3, so you'd have to transmux every movie into a mp4 container.
the cheapos at sony, didn't wanna pay M$ license fees for NTFS, so you're limited to 4gb and fat32 (external drives only afaik).

Yeah, the tv likes some h264 and not others which I attribute to different bit rates since the audio always works, but some of them just give a green blur.

With the PS3 since it has a hard drive and an os wouldn't it be possible to install the right codec for it to play mkv files?

I only recently started downloading the hd files from torrent sites like here mostly because there don't seem to be as many seeders and it takes forever to dl. I could always use mIRC and I probably should get back into that habit since XDCC blows torrents out of the water (it's a one-way connection and I average 1-2mbps downstream).

Most of the hd files I have gotten so far have been h264 with some mkv. I have utlra mkv converter to transcode to h264, but I lose interest when I have to take extra steps that take a long time. I have a QX6800 processor (waste of money imo) and 4 gigs of dominator ram along with an 8800 Ultra oc video card and my system takes as long to transcode as when I used my 6600 proc with 2 gigs of ram, or so it seems anyway. Making the files divx5 loses some of the quality, but not so much that I get upset at the image. DIVX 1080P is nice but takes almost as long to transcode as h264.

What would be nice is if they would pick one format, one bit rate, frame rate, etc and just leave it at that. There is no media file my computer can't play but watching this stuff on 22 inches isn't the same as on 42 inches. My pc monitor is 1080p also, but still...

---

When the new cpu's and mobos come out and I see if ATI wins the battle for top video card like it looks like they have for now, I will spect out a new system. I could always just connect this pc to my tv when I do, but again that's an extra step.

[T-Fish]

(4th November 2009 10:58)teikyo37 Wrote:  With the PS3 since it has a hard drive and an os wouldn't it be possible to install the right codec for it to play mkv files?

no. you can't "update" anything for the same reasons as you can't play
a pirated game on it.
as far as i know, the video specs haven't changed since the ps3's first release.

(4th November 2009 08:54)teikyo37 Wrote:  Most of the hd files I have gotten so far have been h264 with some mkv. I have utlra mkv converter to transcode to h264, but I lose interest when I have to take extra steps that take a long time.

i think you're confusing something here. mkv (matroska) is just a container.
a container can have multiple audio-, video- and subtitle tracks.
so lets say you download blabla.mkv, then inside the mkv, you have e.g. blabla.h264 (video stream) and blabla.ac3 (audio stream).

there are quite a few containers that can handle h264, but the only ones
that make sense really, are mkv, mp4 and m2ts.

so im not sure what you mean by "extra steps that take a long time". if all
you are doing is changing containers from mkv to mp4 for instance, then
that can be done within seconds as you dont need to touch either video nor
audio streams. you just extract both streams (demux) and join them again
into a new container (mux).

(4th November 2009 08:54)teikyo37 Wrote:  I have a QX6800 processor (waste of money imo) and 4 gigs of dominator ram along with an 8800 Ultra oc video card and my system takes as long to transcode as when I used my 6600 proc with 2 gigs of ram, or so it seems anyway. Making the files divx5 loses some of the quality, but not so much that I get upset at the image. DIVX 1080P is nice but takes almost as long to transcode as h264.

check task-manager when you encode. unless your cpu is maxed at 100%, you're not using all cores. amount of ram doesn't affect encoding speed, neither
does your graphics card. its just number crunching

(4th November 2009 08:54)teikyo37 Wrote:  What would be nice is if they would pick one format, one bit rate, frame rate, etc and just leave it at that. There is no media file my computer can't play but watching this stuff on 22 inches isn't the same as on 42 inches. My pc monitor is 1080p also, but still...

---

When the new cpu's and mobos come out and I see if ATI wins the battle for top video card like it looks like they have for now, I will spect out a new system. I could always just connect this pc to my tv when I do, but again that's an extra step.

you have a few options..
- do all encodes yourself to assure they will work on your equipment
- play everything on your pc, connected to the tv (dvi-hdmi)
- only download files specifically made for your device (dvd, ps3, xbox w/e)

[teikyo37]

(4th November 2009 22:06)T-Fish Wrote:  i think you're confusing something here. mkv (matroska) is just a container.
a container can have multiple audio-, video- and subtitle tracks.
so lets say you download blabla.mkv, then inside the mkv, you have e.g. blabla.h264 (video stream) and blabla.ac3 (audio stream).

No, I know, it's like avi or asf, but why in the world does ultra mkv converter take so long? It acts like it's transcoding the file. Like when I use rer converter to go from h264 to divx5 or divx converter to go from h264 to divx1080p. When I used Yamb, that program was quick. But I never tried it with mkv, just with h264 to change from 6 channel to 2 channel. Oddly, my tv plays the 6 channel perfectly fine as it turns out. My computer wasn't playing nice with those.

I have ultra mp4 converter as well but I don't like that the program doesn't tell me the specific rates a file is or what it's changing it to. It tells you the format, but I don't know what bit rate everything is so I prefer rer converter.

My cores are not maxed out. Not even close. I'd be okay with giving up 90% as long as I could play mahjong or something like tetris while it does it's thing. I doubt I'd have enough left over to play UT3. Transcoding is funny. The most powerful computer in the world would choke trying to do that and play something like UT3. I had the QX6800 when it came out. My rig was top dog at the time and cost me over $3,000 to build. It outperformed my Q6600 pcs, but not to the point where I felt like it was money well spent.

My next system will be probably the entry level core i7, a decent motherboard, probably 8 gigs of ram, an SSD for the OS, another drive for storage, bd burner, and a decent direct x 11 video card. Not going crazy this time. I spec'd one out for under $2,000

[T-Fish]

(4th November 2009 23:11)teikyo37 Wrote:  No, I know, it's like avi or asf, but why in the world does ultra mkv converter take so long? It acts like it's transcoding the file.

it most likely is :/ which isnt needed and degrades quality in the process.

if you just want to demux (strip) the streams out of a mkv file, then give
mkvtoolnix with mkvextractgui a go.

(4th November 2009 23:11)teikyo37 Wrote:  Like when I use rer converter to go from h264 to divx5 or divx converter to go from h264 to divx1080p. When I used Yamb, that program was quick. But I never tried it with mkv, just with h264 to change from 6 channel to 2 channel. Oddly, my tv plays the 6 channel perfectly fine as it turns out. My computer wasn't playing nice with those.

yamb is a very good gui for mp4box

what player do you use on your pc ? id recommend MPCHC for HD content.

you could also try avidemux to transmux mkv to mp4.
open mkv, set video/audio to "copy", set format to mp4 and save.

(4th November 2009 23:11)teikyo37 Wrote:  My cores are not maxed out. Not even close. I'd be okay with giving up 90% as long as I could play mahjong or something like tetris while it does it's thing. I doubt I'd have enough left over to play UT3. Transcoding is funny. The most powerful computer in the world would choke trying to do that and play something like UT3. I had the QX6800 when it came out. My rig was top dog at the time and cost me over $3,000 to build. It outperformed my Q6600 pcs, but not to the point where I felt like it was money well spent.

then the application you use only uses 1 or 2 cores instead of all 4.
even if you use all cores, you could still do other things on your pc. all it
means is that it uses all cpu power available. (priority settings per application matter as well)